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Post by sueabbery on Dec 24, 2006 13:42:22 GMT 1
I would do what ever instinct told me to do. Once problem sorted, on the phone to carpenter to fix door and then pick the groom that had pissed me off most that day and get them to muck out the geldings box.
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kooky
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 181
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Post by kooky on Dec 24, 2006 13:53:05 GMT 1
You reacted very well. Simply and effectively.
I have actually been in exactly the same position as this, and unless you can act quicly and without panic, all can be lost.
I didnt have a chiffney, just a control head collar on and a schooling whip in my hand. When the stallion went into full on basic instinct mode, I didnt use the whip, I slapped his nose as quickly and as hard as I could. I whacked the wall with the whip as hard as I could, got his attention and got him out of the way (again, shut in a stable). Said stallion was about 14hh so much easier for me than for you!
I will only react with violence (ie hitting) towards a horse if they put me or another horse in physical danger. It is very rare, but it does happen.
I now lead with blue pipe with stones inside and taped at both ends, just in case.
Well done for keeping your cool.
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Post by mags on Dec 24, 2006 14:21:38 GMT 1
I think you did the right thing to.Any less and you wouldnt have got him away.
I had one 'incident' with a stallion and even knocking him around the head with a head collar as hard as I could took several times to get through to him(he escaped from his field and mounted a mare I was leading)
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Post by Native Ponies on Dec 24, 2006 14:38:08 GMT 1
Good question.
If the horse was ignoring the bit and about to attack another I think I'd probably throw a bucket of water over him. The unexpected shock would probably stop him in his tracks.
I did this once before when a bigger horse had escaped, had a little one cornered in the yard and looked set to kill her. It worked.
Id basically do whatever it took to prevent injury to the other horse and myself. Having been in another similar situation again, I grabbed whatever was nearest to hand and walloped the agressive horse. It was an orange plastic shovell.
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blueali
Olympic Poster
water horse vs. land horse
Posts: 822
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Post by blueali on Dec 24, 2006 17:05:36 GMT 1
So I would have done exactly the same as Janet. I guess the problem with this situation was that it was an accident of circumstance and not predictable given the information Janet had at the time. I'm sure if she had the stallion would not have been stabled somewhere that it needed to be led past or near other horses.
Getting the stallion to percieve you as a bigger threat than the gelding was the only way to divert its attention long enough to regain some control. In this case I would justify extreme violence as a mare would display if the stallion went for her foal (or any other mother).
These sample senarios are very useful to see how we would react, even with our IH ideals.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 24, 2006 17:39:20 GMT 1
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Post by mags on Dec 24, 2006 17:57:36 GMT 1
same could be said of the brush ss3 lol
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Post by Native Ponies on Dec 24, 2006 18:45:04 GMT 1
For all the people who have suggested throwing a bucket of water over the stallion. Even if one is full and within reach, how exactly, while holding onto a large stallion, kicking hell out of a stable door, are you going to pick it up and throw it----one handed! Um, you let go of the lead rope.
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Post by janetgeorge on Dec 24, 2006 18:57:59 GMT 1
These sample senarios are very useful to see how we would react, even with our IH ideals. Yep ;D That was the idea! As I've said before, I have NO problems with IH ideals - with luck and good management, they'll give you all you'll (hopefully) ever need to deal with the vast majority of horses. What DOES concern me is that some people who come to this site (and others) looking for advice may not HAVE luck - or much experience with IH - and their chances of getting to grips with, say, a horse that barges over the top of them when the stable door is opened WITHOUT the use of a little 'corporal punishment' are pretty slim. Yet reading many of the replies to these sorts of problems, some could be made to feel they MUSTN'T do anything of the sort - or feel terribly guilty and 'failures' because they HAVE used those techniques. There are many horses who do NOT need to be hit, ever, either because they have very nice temperaments and have been handled and trained properly from an early age, OR because someone has already done it (hard!) and the message has got through. I might add that they are more likely to be mares, IMO - it's quite rare for a colt NOT to need 'a severe talking to' at least once before he's gelded. I had one this year - out of 6 colts - who we gelded 3 weeks before he was weaned and at no stage did I have to even speak sternly to him. I really felt rather guilty when we did the nasty deed - because he just didn't deserve it. But there are just as many more who will - at some stage - need to be convinced that while Mummy is a nice lady who brings food and attention, she can also bite if provoked. Better they learn it sooner rather than later - when the behaviour is relatively mild and the punishment can also be mild. That stallion hadn't learned that people COULD make him do things! The couple who had owned him for 5 years were scared of him when he indulged in pretty 'normal' stallion behaviour - like grabbing the headcollar in teeth when they attempted to put it on. So if they needed to put a headcollar on him, they put a feed under his nose and buckled the headcollar up around his head while his teeth were otherwise engaged. Similarly, they didn't make him step back when they entered the stable - just walked in with a feed in front of them and let him eat from the bucket while they were taking it to the manger. He wouldn't even tie up!! He was an extreme example of both 'a horse' and 'a situation' but far smaller examples of the breed, without the 'benefit' of testosterone, can be just as dangerous if they think people can be pushed around.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 24, 2006 19:16:39 GMT 1
Janet is soooo right, Nativeponies, I know you mean well, but drop the rope in a situation like that and the stallion is free to go foward through the door and into the stable----he really isn't going to give a damn if you chuck water over him! HE WANTS to get at his supposed adversary----the poor gelding! None of us wants or indeed needs ,to hit or mistreat in any way, our or anyone elses horses in most circumstances, but just occasionally, we have to take control at any cost.
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Post by samcspottyhorses on Dec 24, 2006 19:34:32 GMT 1
A young stallion on our yard was being taken to be gelded wearing my horse's lunge cavesson. He was p1ssing about, tossed his head and whacked his owner in the face knocking her teeth into her jaws.
That was a very brave post janetgeorge. I expect most of us would hvae reacted instinctively and with all the strength we had in some way! Even if it meant including violence. I would have been doing the brown liquid too, never mind the poor gelding!
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Post by Hanchen on Dec 24, 2006 19:40:58 GMT 1
That stallion hadn't learned that people COULD make him do things! The couple who had owned him for 5 years were scared of him when he indulged in pretty 'normal' stallion behaviour - like grabbing the headcollar in teeth when they attempted to put it on. So if they needed to put a headcollar on him, they put a feed under his nose and buckled the headcollar up around his head while his teeth were otherwise engaged. Similarly, they didn't make him step back when they entered the stable - just walked in with a feed in front of them and let him eat from the bucket while they were taking it to the manger. He wouldn't even tie up!! He was an extreme example of both 'a horse' and 'a situation' but far smaller examples of the breed, without the 'benefit' of testosterone, can be just as dangerous if they think people can be pushed around. Hopefully that above quote would have come out.. Can i ask why is grabbing the headcollar with the teeth a stallion thing?
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Post by janetgeorge on Dec 24, 2006 19:49:02 GMT 1
Can i ask why is grabbing the headcollar with the teeth a stallion thing? Colts and stallions like grabbing things! Have known very few that didn't try. When I worked in racing stables, we had a colt that was a pussycat in most ways but a pain to put the headcollar on. I used him as the interview horse - when a lad turned up for a job saying he had 'experience with colts', I'd ask him to get that colt out. If he could, he'd get a week's trial. I remember one lad spent 20 minutes in the stable, came out and said: "You can't put a headcollar on that horse". Me: "No, YOU can't put a headcollar on that horse!" Him: "That's what I said!" Me: "No, it wasn't!" (Pedantic, me? Never! ;D)
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 24, 2006 19:51:36 GMT 1
From foalhood, a horse's natural reaction to having his head pulled, is to pull back. A stallion has the intelligence to realise that if the headcollar is on his head, it puts him at a disadvantage.If he gets hold of it first, HE has the advantage. Same goes for many bright youngsters.
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Post by pentaran on Dec 24, 2006 19:54:22 GMT 1
Janet , I have read this thread with interest and it comes over very strongly that SS3 and yourself fully realise the consequences of animals like this getting their own way, not in any way wanting to cause offence to anyone else. We stand five stallions at stud here, 3 cobs, 1 TB and one Arab ranging from 15-17 hands. 99% of the time they are gentlemen and are handled by women 100% of the time ( a crime according to the National Stud ! ) BUT we have had two incidents where two have got together and thrashed seven bells out of each other , Once when they were three paddocks apart and the 27year old ! decided in his wisdom to lift two gates off their hinges and get at the Arab and proceed to virtually killing him, - a fractured skull and ruptured artery later we managed to seperate them by using far from IH methods involving, screaming/ shouting/ beating with brooms to distract them enough so one could be grabbed. The second time was when the TB opened his yard gate and legged it down the drive and started a battle with a cob stallion in his paddock, they fought over the gate ,and in kicking bum to bum threw the gate off its hinges. Again there is no way,that , twitching? ??, water etc would stop them it was pure distraction by beating. These were pure accidents through no ones fault and the kindest stallions can turn in these cases. BUT accidents do happen . I can just imagine Janet that you were having a fair few palpitations at the end of that. I have been with horses for 40 years and I can assure you the boys learnt some choice words that day that my Chapel going mother had never heard. Join up is certainly no use in those situations .
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