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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 24, 2006 11:24:59 GMT 1
ps . A great many people on this DG through no fault of their own, because they have never encountered an angry, fit, stallion, will not realise that in a scenario such as this, If the stallion DID get to the gelding, he WOULD more than likely kill it, so I'm afraid suggestions like "making myself big" Flapping my arms" and making the Stallion "flick an ear and listen for a split second" would be as useless as a chocolate teapot.
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Post by kirstie on Dec 24, 2006 11:35:42 GMT 1
totally agree ss3. no doubt if he kicked through the door the gelding would have been next my friend has a stunning big stallion,99% of the time hes a dream to handle but if he has a off day i can tell you flapping your arms & shouting at him would be like waving a red flag at a pi%&ed off bull
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megnum
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,070
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Post by megnum on Dec 24, 2006 11:48:23 GMT 1
I agree with Mags and Dan in all they have said although I think being a 5ft1 13year old I would be slightly useless in such a situation
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megnum
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,070
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Post by megnum on Dec 24, 2006 11:49:11 GMT 1
Also janetgeorge what did you actually do
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jo
Novice Poster
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Post by jo on Dec 24, 2006 11:51:28 GMT 1
so did any of what I said make sense then...was I wrong or did noone read what I put?
(going off to sulk now)
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Post by mags on Dec 24, 2006 11:54:58 GMT 1
Have too admit i have used less than IH methods on the odd occasion with the fit colts. when your leading a very fit fresh colt to turn out pen , considering iv not always met them before, Sometimes for safety you need to make sure you can keep the top hand
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Post by magicgirl on Dec 24, 2006 11:59:06 GMT 1
A big angry stallion is now fun. If I had been in that situation I would also have had a stick and would be using it very hard with a lot of shouting and kicking (from me) just to get him to move somewhere else. Luckily my big stallion is ok but I did have to seperate two fighting pony stallions who had lived together all winter very happily until some idiot put her mare in the next door field becouse she wanted her to meet some new friends. In that instance I was luck enough to have a schooling whip to hand and just laid into them until they were frightened of me than fighting. Once they had stopped and were cought they were fine to deal with and certainly not frightened of me then.
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Post by wildrover on Dec 24, 2006 12:05:06 GMT 1
Ya know what, I dont honestly know what I would do. Sitting here at a keyboard typing 'what I would do' could be a far cry from what I would 'actually' do.
Gotta go with SS there and say, if the stallion was hell bent on getting in there aint much I can do to stop him..... using any methods.
First thing I would do is make a very quick assessment of the situation - my own health being top priority. I'm not sure how close you could get to such a scenario without putting yourself at risk. Even if there was a hose pipe or something to hand I dont think smacking him one would make any difference.
If there were some plastic bags about I would pick em up and make a heck of a scene with them .. or get a rug over his head or something ..... anything to get that stallion to thinking there is a bigger danger outside of the gelding's stable rather than inside it.
I'm guessing this was a real scenario .... and I'm guessing you got the situation under control. So...
1. What did happen? 2. How could you have prevented it from happening in the first place, if at all? 3. How has the stallion been since? 4. Most of all, how has the gelding been since?
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Post by danielle on Dec 24, 2006 12:07:19 GMT 1
I would run!!!!!
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naria
Grand Prix Poster
yet when all books have been read it boils down to the horse, his human & what goes on between them
Posts: 1,455
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Post by naria on Dec 24, 2006 12:08:56 GMT 1
I don't have stallions so I may be miles off the mark, but I've had a riggy gelding & some people aren't too sure about Jim.
I'm assuming calmly standing your ground wasn't going to work?
You don't say but I assume you'd also be carrying a whip if leading a new stallion? Basically I'd damn well sock him on the chiffney, bellow at him & if hit him. I'd also be grabbing anything I could to keep him off me (was he mad enough to go for you?) while praying someone heard the racket & came to my rescue!!!! If doing that managed to back him up I'd get him into the nearest stable, try to keep him away from the door & yell for back up who I'd then get to move the gelding as a priority since that seemed to be the trigger.
Ultimately though if it was a toss up between the gelding and me I'd leave them to it. Sorry but getting myself killed wouldn't solve anything.
What happened?
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Post by touchstone on Dec 24, 2006 12:40:45 GMT 1
Being a complete wuss, I'd be ringing the vet and getting him gelded I wouldn't leave them to it though -I couldn't stand watching another horse being killed by a stallion - saw a gelding attak a foal almost to the death and it was awful - I'd certainly do whatever it took, IH or not to separate them, and make sure the stallion was never in a position to be able to attack another horse again.
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Post by wildrover on Dec 24, 2006 12:51:49 GMT 1
Yeh but touchstone, the point is what would you do at the precise moment? You have seconds literally .... mans strength alone would not avert the situation. Therefore, only by adopting some tactics might the situation be brought under control ....
The scenario as put by the original poster is somewhat minimum, as there is no way of knowing the precise circumstances, space available, tools to hand etc etc. Therefore, it would not be possible to make an accurate assessment in any case .... however, in broad terms some form of immediate action is required ... even if that is removing yourself from a dangerous situation and running for help etc.
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Post by peaches on Dec 24, 2006 13:06:54 GMT 1
i would probaly use a sirrata [sp?] you know those spanish head collars with the metal peice across the nose [not tho ones with the metal studs in that is just nasty] and see how he was to handle in that. i dont think i would want to use a chiffeny incase it bruised his mouth. yea woud use a sirrata and some strong words an flicks on the lead rope. i think that should get his attention and use positive inforcement to try and get him past. failing that i would have someone behind him well behind with a hose so if he did start he would get squirted with cold water to try and send him forward.
xxxx
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Post by kirstie on Dec 24, 2006 13:22:31 GMT 1
it would only bruise his mouth if he pissed about in it,my friends gelding is a bugger to lead,only thing that stops him tanking off is a chiffney. if he trys to run off a tug on it reminds him not to
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Post by janetgeorge on Dec 24, 2006 13:39:43 GMT 1
Right - I'll put you all out of your misery and tell you what happened next.
Fortunately, it was in the days BEFORE I had full time staff so I KNEW where the stable broom was - right inside the door hanging on the correct peg. I grabbed it and hit him on the side of the head with it - as hard as I could (broke the broom). That deflected his attention for a second and I was able to yank him around 90 degrees and - using the broken broom-handle hard on his chest AND the Chifney, I was able to force him backwards into the next stable which thankfully was open.
I slammed the door shut and the bu**er shot right to the back of the box so he could square up to the concrete block wall - which was now the only thing between him and the gelding - and proceeded to bouble-barrell THAT for several minutes (until the pain of unshod hind feet connecting solid wall started to get through to him.)
The whole incident - from start to finish - took about 60 seconds. Maybe something 'nicer' would have worked - but if it didn't - Gus would be dead now - and me too if I'd tried to get between them.
I tended to poor Gus - moved him to another stable block - and then dealt with the stallion and got him back in his stable - and then collapsed in a dithering heap. It was probably the most frightening incident I've dealt with - on the ground - in 50 years of handling horses.
Needless to say the stallion was only at mine for as long as it took me to find a very experienced stallion man who was prepared to take him off my hands. You can't train a stallion NOT to do that sort of thing - you can try, but you only know the training has worked IF you give him the opportunity to do it again and he doesn't (but it would only be 'that time he didn't' - you'd never be sure.)
I thought his behaviour was probably due to the way he'd been kept by previous owners (who were scared of him.) He was kept in a compound, isolated from other horses. Never went in a field. I'd had him for 4 weeks when this happened and the gelding had been in the box next door for a week - he'd shown NO signs of aggression towards him although part of the wall above the bottom four foot of concrete block was just weldmesh, so he could see and smell the gelding. I'd been leading him out to the field every day - he was 'difficult' but not seriously so. But a year later I met the former owner of his sire - and she told me HE was exactly the same - downright dangerous to lead past other stables.
Fortunately none of my mares had been covered by him - if they had been, any colts would have been gelded pronto, no matter HOW nice they were. He was put down a year later, due to age-related sub-fertility and the fact he wouldn't have been 'safe', even if gelded. (He was 18 by then.)
He has a son at stud who apparently has a very good temperament - and maybe HE would have been fine if he'd been properly socialised (and disciplined!) from a young age.
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