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Post by spanisheyes on Dec 9, 2010 17:51:30 GMT 1
I saw these links to vids on another forum and there was a bit of debate about which horse is working best. My thoughts differed completely with those on the other forum so wondered what you guys think? Which horse in your opinion is working best? Horse number 1 www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9sKBHmuaS0Horse number 2 www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfO6d91k5f8&feature=relatedWhat do you see that is pleasing in the work of each horse and what dont you like. I will tell you my favourite afterwards I think both are stunning and I credit the hard work of their owners and riders but for me one is how I like to see a horse work the other not so much. But have I got it completely wrong?!
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Post by julz on Dec 9, 2010 18:11:02 GMT 1
I think the first one is slightly better than the magnificent arab... but only because the rider seems more balanced than the second rider does..... the second rider to me seems that just sometimes she momentarily loses her balance and that upsets the horses' stride....
But what do I know... I will never be able to ride as well as either of them
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Post by Mellymoo on Dec 9, 2010 18:15:30 GMT 1
Right, I watched a bit of each one but got bored, so here is my considered (!!) opinion (coupled with my lack of ability!). I like them both. Horse one is working harder and a bit better I think, and seems happy enough. Horse two looks grand, but is not concentrating and moving its head about quite a lot. I do not think the rider is as nice though - she seems to be landing quite heavily in trot.
As I said though, I know nothing!!!!
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Post by laurac on Dec 9, 2010 18:18:53 GMT 1
2 very different horses ! I've not watched both videos in full but with the first horse I liked his swinging hind quarters action but i think he lacked hind end impulsion and wasnt fully tracking up, didnt look 100% relaxed 2nd horse was my favourtie looked really light on its toes and the front end and back end connected, looked much more natural and relaxed and comfortable I'm really no expert but thats my initial thoughts from a quick view of each (liked the music on the 2nd vid too )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2010 18:23:14 GMT 1
Likewise melloymoo I got bored so only watched a bit of each but I disagree!
I think the first one looks like he's moving unevenly, I can't quite work out if that's coming from the forehand or behind. I don't like seeing his neck muscles straining while he's being ridden over bent and I think it looks like the rider is holding him back and not showing his natural paces as she should be.
The second one is moving more freely, doing a much bigger trot which is probably why the rider is finding it harder to stay with him. I agree the rider of the first one looks to be more balanced and have a nicer seat.
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Post by sarahbing on Dec 9, 2010 18:23:50 GMT 1
Both completely different horses with a completely different way of going. I agree, I think the grey wasn't helped by the rider in parts, and had an unsettled head carriage as a result, but a gorgeous natural stride and rhythm. The bay seemed to have more power and forward motion and engagement, but was overbent, which I don't like to see.In med trot he his rhythm changed (faster) rather then more upward momentum and lengthened srtide. He was a little tense and she was v quick to retake after the give and retake, so was he reliant on her contact to hold him? Hmmm, difficult..
Would like to see the experts comment
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 9, 2010 18:34:14 GMT 1
At first I liked the bay best, but then after watching more of the 2nd video I think I prefer the grey, although I'd have to take my scissors to all that hair!!
The bay, started with a lovely swininging bum! But the horse seemed to "held" by the rider, at times he looked bridle lame. What I liked about the grey was that he was really allowed to move under his rider, he was really floating and I think he was super with the rider clumping about all over his back (sorry lady!!) in rising trot! The slow mo doesnt help either! But the canter was better.
I'm sure a dressage judge would prefer the bay, but I think there was just something about the grey!
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Post by ladynowak on Dec 9, 2010 19:03:41 GMT 1
Ok bit difficult to compare a WB that has obviously been bred to do dressage, ridden by an fairly experienced dressage rider against a floaty, very american, arab.
I don't like the first, but then it is like watching many dressage clips. The horse is over bent a lot of the time and isn't going up into the bridle, but they are bred to be flashy rather than classically correct so can't really expect much more. But the rider sits still, her backside doesn't leave the saddle and her legs are nice and quiet when she wants them to be. When the horse is given his head, he looks much nicer and would probably go much more 'correctly' given the chance.
Second horse. I love arabs, but in all honestly I was annoyed after the first few minutes of 'pretty horsey does shampoo advert' type video. Miss flappy legs on board wasn't doing the horse any favors. But the horse was moving forwards and wasn't over bent, but isn't going forward and round into a nice contact and looks to be held together by the riders hands.
Id say that technically neither are working 'correctly'.
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Post by jennyb on Dec 9, 2010 19:08:53 GMT 1
I am not really sure how you can compare the two. Two completely different breeds of horse, different situations, different stages of training by the looks of it. But here's my two pennorth:
Horse One - LOTS of hock wobble! But nice pony, well trained and working on simple changes, pirouettes and half steps, so starting quite a high level of collection. I actually thought he was ridden nicely, the trainer had to remind her to let the neck out in the medium trot, and I thought her hands were too busy in the simple changes, but otherwise she didn't actually hold him in. He isn't that overbent either, he has a huge stallion crest and comes behind the vertical quite a lot, but it doesn't look like he is held there. At this level of training, one would expect a higher head carriage anyway, I certainly wouldn't expect to see him working long and low on these exercises! He's very supple laterally and quite obedient.
Horse two - well, she didn't show a lot, did she?! Certainly no lateral work, no collection, just medium walk, working trot and working canter. Not really putting him through his paces for a good assessment, I think she just wanted to wow people with his pricky ears and flowing mane (which has evidently worked, lol!). She was quite unbalanced and relied on her hands a lot, and he didn't look to be working particularly well over his back, he looked a bit tense behind the saddle and just typical of a breed with a higher head carriage - able to float about and look pretty without actually using their body well! Oh, so familiar.... So his basic gaits look ok, but I'd want to see more.
You're effectively comparing a horse working at Advanced Medium/Advanced with a horse apparently working at Prelim!
I think the bridle lameness some could see might have been the horse being very ready to collect and come back to his rider. His balance and obedience is good, and maybe at times he was trying too hard and anticipating a bit. He looked more sound as the clip went on, probably as he relaxed into the exercises and stopped anticipating.
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Post by welly on Dec 9, 2010 19:14:49 GMT 1
The first one was an arab too! Which is why the comparision is interesting. In my humble opinion I think the first one was working better, but just needed a little more implusion, as he was going overbent at times - a little more freedom from the rider's hand?
The second one was lovely, but the rider wasn't as well balanced and the rein contact was inconsistent. But hey - I couldn't ride as well as either. Both lovely horses.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 9, 2010 19:35:28 GMT 1
They are both Arab Stallions!! The bay is just held very tight so looks like a WB!!
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Post by iceberg on Dec 9, 2010 19:47:40 GMT 1
Im my extremely humble opinion, the grey looked better - now I did only watch around 1 minute of both videos - but my immediate feeling was the first horse, the bay looked very uncomfortable, held back and stuffy . The grey looked flowing, alert, yet relaxed, fluid yet had impulsion. Just my immediate thoughts as I know nothing..
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Post by tikkatonks on Dec 9, 2010 19:49:41 GMT 1
I prefer the first, the second looks very tense to me and lots of head bobbing about.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 9, 2010 20:28:43 GMT 1
I also agree that we are not comparing like with like, rider 1 is riding to a much higher standard and is in a lesson environment with a top trainer. The 2nd is showing off her stallion with slow-mo etc to show how pretty he is.
I just prefered the naturalness (is that a word?!) of the grey!
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Derek Clark
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Post by Derek Clark on Dec 9, 2010 20:39:14 GMT 1
Hi spanisheyes,
I have to say I usually avoid these sorts of threads like the plague as I don't want to get sucked into making criticisms of others, however in the spirit of education only I'll give a very short answer to your question.
Imho, there's no contest. The second horse is using his body effectively - the first one isn't, hence the wobbly hocks. That said, there's lots to admire about both...
Derek
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