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Post by arabmania on Dec 9, 2010 22:41:42 GMT 1
didn't like rider number two wearing spares with her shaky lower leg.
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Post by ☺Smithy☺ on Dec 9, 2010 22:49:49 GMT 1
Different horses......different environments.The second one was looking about a bit to begin with. I prefered the second one, much more natural movement than the first one.
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Post by Liz on Dec 9, 2010 23:06:19 GMT 1
Goodness, it's not quite comparing like with like, is it? I thought the second horse was better and would like to see him with a rider with good balance in him. The horse was a little girl's dream and a groom's nightmare - lots of flowing hair!!! The bay was very nice but I feel he was restrained and hence unable to show his best paces. His more collected trot, I thought, was choppy and not tracking up.
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Post by mandal on Dec 9, 2010 23:34:03 GMT 1
I know nothing and tried not to be influenced by the differently produced vids. ;D I hate the flash on both but the first horse really seemed to be opening(or trying to) his mouth against it. To me the second horse looked much happier and more relaxed, floaty and carrying himself as he wished to a greater degree than the first horse who seemed to me a little tense and struggling with his work. His (first horse) demenour looked more tense as did his expression to me. I have a feeling my impression is not what knowledgeable dressage peeps will say though. ;D Mta... and I was good and posted before i read other replies! I wasn't even looking at the riders! rofl!
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Post by jen1 on Dec 10, 2010 0:40:27 GMT 1
vid one seen 1 second of it, rider seems disjointed with shoulders going over the the right, while pelvis is off tot he left, and poll not at tthe highest point , rider looks to be having the rug pulled out from under her bum so slipping backwards, riders left shoulder seem to rise ,and she looks like her left leg is so much stringer than the right, horse often seems over bent but seems to be doing the best he can with what he has, didnt watch a whole lot of it, just snippets, also i see some backward hand,so thats clip one,
clip 2,i agree with jenny you can compare the arab is still over bent on occasions and i dont feel there in true self carraige ,not overly keen on the riders left hand its a bit more steely than the right,he carries his self differantly and arabs just do look more upright ,i like the second one a bit better but cant really say why, looks i suppose, i wonder what would happen if we could switch riders and horses around, be interesting, ive just read dereks post and agree no contest still both riders are probably better than i,
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Post by jennyb on Dec 10, 2010 9:03:18 GMT 1
Just a point - horses should not track up in collected work. Tracking up is only one indicator, and not the only one of a horse working correctly.
I would stick my neck out and agree with ladynowak - neither horse is working correctly, lol! First is a little tense and btv at times, and the second is completely hollow and stiff in the back.
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Post by wabuska on Dec 10, 2010 9:25:35 GMT 1
No expert but I prefer the second to watch, but as with so many of these horses, the rider is letting him down. Don't like the booting along with spurs.
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Amanda Seater
Grand Prix Poster
Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
Posts: 3,866
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Post by Amanda Seater on Dec 10, 2010 10:29:49 GMT 1
A slightly different perspective. I didn't watch much of either. I'll stick my neck out why the hell not....
Take the rider out of the picture. in both. Except that they are very different in location and what they are being asked to do.
The first horse - to me looks stiff and those HOCKS - OMG. TO me he just doesn't look sound at the back end through his back or on the fore. - Why - rider? long term issues not seen and ridden through? I don't know. He isn't working well because something either rider or physical but most probably both is stopping him.
Second horse is moving naturally and is relaxed. he looks sound.
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Both pretty horses mind!
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Post by rj on Dec 10, 2010 11:11:28 GMT 1
Read the comments above after watching approx 1 min of each vid. Horse one is heavy in the riders hand and pulling itself forward in my opinion - looked quite downhill. Second horse was light in front which I loved, and I didn't see a hollow horse at all, just one with a naturally high head carriage being held in a light enough contact to be able to move correctly. I thought the first rider was very skilled, but despite that preffered the whole picture of the second. Much closer to my idea of a partnership.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 10, 2010 11:22:59 GMT 1
The bay looked emtremely obedient and compliant but he was held together in a vice like grip which I do not like. The grey lloked much more relaxed, free to move and show off his flowing paces which I liked. The rider on the grey could be better in the seat and lower leg but if she has got the horse going like that it just goes to show that we dont need to look perfect for the horse to be comfortable and willing to work underneath us. The grey was happy and relaxed under his rider which cant be said about the bay
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Post by wabuska on Dec 10, 2010 13:33:17 GMT 1
I think that's right on the mark Donna, I don't like that tension in the bay. It's dreadful to watch and somehow celebrated in dressage circles without a second glance. Vice-like... that's it.
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Post by lisap on Dec 10, 2010 13:55:07 GMT 1
And yet another viewpoint!... The bay Arab Stallion is mature. He is advanced in his schooling and has the musculature to show for it. He is 'pumped up' as a result and stronger throughout his whole structure. He is like an athlete trained up to a high level. Imagine him to be like a male gymnast. Muscular but flexible. Very powerful. The Grey Arab Stallion is not as mature. He is schooled to basic levels and does not have the same musculature as a result. He is not 'pumped up', and therefore a little more loose and wibbly (his rider is also probably having to work a lot harder to stay balanced as a result, and if you swapped riders there may be less difference in their ability than you might at first think, although rider 1 on the bay is a very good rider). Imagine the Grey as being a young, lanky teenage boy, with lots of potential and talent, but a bit gangly at the moment. I think it is easy to confuse good quality 'raw' material with a horse that is produced for a job to a high level. To me, the bay looks delightful to ride, yes, I'd like to see the poll at the highest point and more extension through the neck, I think that would give a little more freedom in his paces, but I don't agree with others who think he is heavy in the hand (or that the rider is heavy), to me they look very well connected. There is lots of controlled power and terrific impulsion. The Grey is pleasing on the eye in terms of his natural movement, but I suspect I'd not enjoy riding him quite as much as the movement is more uppy downy rather than forward and connected. It all depends what job you want your horse to do as to what it should look like in its body. They are both lovely horses ridden sympathetically IMO, and I'm not really going to say that one is better than the other in the same way as I wouldn't compare a teenage boy starting gymnastics with a competition level man in his twenties.
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Post by spanisheyes on Dec 10, 2010 14:46:17 GMT 1
Wow thanks for all the feedback guys. Im glad that people have given constructive opinions sensitively. I dont know either horse or rider by the way. Im just trying to learn more, to improve my own riding and things like this are so useful. Im glad someone pointed out that they are both arab stallions. My horses are arabs hence my interest This matches what I think. To me the grey looks better, yes he is not working at so high a level but his movement and action is more fluid and pleasing. To me the bay looks too constrained. I cant put my finger on exactly what it is that I dislike but the picture of the bay in video 1 isnt what I like to see. Everyone on the other forum is raving about the bay horse and thinking it has a wonderful way of going but I prefer the grey. It is annoying me that I cant pinpoint what it is about the bay that I dont like Every day is a school day.
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Post by jennyb on Dec 10, 2010 14:56:22 GMT 1
Agree with LisaP. The bay isn't held in, I'm not quite sure what some of you are seeing.
And I know all about a breed with a high head carriage, I own one and have had the devil's own job to get him to use his body correctly. That grey horse looks like mine did 12 months ago!
Good point from Lisa about the grey being more difficult to ride as it is more unbalanced - I'm sure I must have wibbled around like that rider when my horse was as green as that one is. Now he is stronger and using his body better, he is much more smooth, his trot feels like he is gliding.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 15:13:18 GMT 1
Quote LisaP: It all depends what job you want your horse to do as to what it should look like in its body.I think this is the key point, I bought an arab because I love their natural movement and showmanship and I have no desire to train him out of it and turn him into a horse people confuse with a warmblood. I also don't see any beauty or benefit in teaching a horse to go around looking at the ground
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