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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 18, 2005 0:48:56 GMT 1
About avoiding the avoidable... Terrible injuries can and do happen to riders, often as a result of unpredictable events. Is riding avoidable? I would say so! If not, why not? Simple really.
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Post by circusdancer on Dec 18, 2005 0:49:32 GMT 1
Obviously thinks women dont know what they hell they are doing...although seems to have a problem with francis too... Yann took a fair bit of stick as well so I don't think WR is a mysoginist but more a text book would be horse owner that doesn't want to hear, which is a shame.
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Post by jor on Dec 18, 2005 0:53:21 GMT 1
thats true.... He just reminds me too much of the guy from the yard next door....lol
Wonder WR if you do or have ever owned a horse? Wonder if you can outline your equine experience to us...
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 18, 2005 1:02:13 GMT 1
From an article in Western Horseman... The inherent risks of riding: Horses can be unpredictable. Even veteran horses retain the "fight-or-flight" response to real or imagined threats. Furthermore, environmental risks, such as varmint holes, uneven ground, slick surfaces, rocks and tree roots, can cause any horse to trip, slip or fall. Have you or a rider you know taken a spill that resulted in injury? Since 13 percent of people who ride six or more times per year receive emergency-room treatment for a riding-related accident, chances are, you or someone you know has been seriously hurt. In an Australian university survey of sports risks, equestrian activities ranked higher in serious injury and death per hours of activity than automobile and motorcycle racing. The rate of concussions treated in Australian emergency rooms was twice as high for equestrian patients as those in any other sport, including boxing, soccer and rugby. Source: www.troxelhelmets.com/pdf/TroxelWestHorse-102104.pdf[I'd be interested to know how UK riding accident rates compare to these.]
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Dec 18, 2005 1:04:48 GMT 1
mmmmmmmmm relative positioning eh .......... its a long way down to tarmac as well from the back of a spooked horse !!!!!!!!!!!
Lots people do a heck of a lot of damage to themselves in such scenarios ......... the likelyhood / velocity of body hiting tarmac from 8 - 10 feet off the ground is far higher than that of a body1 foot from a moving target in the momentary postion under a relaxed horses belly !
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Post by wildrover on Dec 18, 2005 1:08:03 GMT 1
Francis - could say I agree with you .. but then I might get into a spot of bother. There is, however, a probability of risk with every action we take. I could even have hurt my finger if it had slipped off the key while typing this message.
Circus - I have learned a new word tonight - not a mysoginist (phew have I spelt that right) but a would be many things. Cant be seen to agree with you though .... but ... not wanting to hear .... hmmmm .......... actually I love to learn .... equally realising how little I know ....
Jo R - I assuming the guy next door does not think going under a horses belly is ok either? I could outline my equine experience to you ....... but what relevance would that be to my opinion that going under a horses belly is not the thing to do? I may, for instance, like watchng a movie, however, do I need acting experience to have a judgement on movies?
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Dec 18, 2005 1:11:26 GMT 1
ooohhh blooming heck francis .......... you now scared the bejesus out of me ;D never knew this horse thing was soooooooooooo dangerous. guess I didnt get to near my half century (having sat on horses before I went to school) and learn anything about these creatures......... all the bites, bruises and even a broken bone or two ..... oh boy I am difficult to get through to !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 18, 2005 1:22:38 GMT 1
That raises an interesting (if rather academic) point, Laura. In the fly-swatting scenario, how hard can and does a horse hit its own belly? Hard enough to bruise? Which part of the foot comes into contact with the belly? Fetlock joint rather than the hoof perhaps? I've no doubt that a person's head getting in the way of a raised foot could receive a nasty clunk, but certainly not as hard as a deliberate backwards kick to the head.
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 18, 2005 1:25:56 GMT 1
Francis - could say I agree with you .. but then I might get into a spot of bother. Oh, go on - be a devil! ;D (Thank you for spelling my name correctly, btw!)
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 18, 2005 1:38:37 GMT 1
There is, however, a probability of risk with every action we take. I could even have hurt my finger if it had slipped off the key while typing this message. Well yes, and it goes to show that risk isn't an absolute, black and white issue. Everyone has to draw a line somewhere. One person's "insane" is another person's "ok". Just how much more injurious "belly-crawling" is compared to riding is debatable, and -- I suspect -- ultimately unprovable.
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Dec 18, 2005 1:49:30 GMT 1
precisely francis ... and after all it is why we DISCUSS these things ;D goodnight
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Post by jor on Dec 18, 2005 11:33:44 GMT 1
WR see, now, when did I ever say going under a horses belly was ok myself? I said if someone wants to then thats fine as its them and thier horse....but I dont recall saying it was 'ok' or that Ive ever done it myself lol
The guy next doors problem is something along the lines of I am younger than him, a woman, have more horses than he does and know more than he does, despite him thinking he knows everything and is always right.
Im actually starting to believe you have very little equine experience as you seem so keen to avoid the subject...
I have to say I think others have made a good point, RIDING a horse is much much more risky than going under its belly or round its back end or under its neck or leadrope. All my injuries have been as a result of riding accidents bar one from a kick from a horse in a stall when i was 12, the horse backed out of the stall to the end of his rope and kicked out, couldnt have avoided it as was already walking next to the wall!
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Post by wildrover on Dec 18, 2005 11:54:20 GMT 1
Francis - (got it right again - see, I'm learning) - I dont think anybody is saying riding is not a risk activity - however, the comparison between riding v belly crawling may not have any scientific research statistics. On the other hand, given the choice between two positions when a horse spooked - i.e. either on its back or under its belly, where do you think the most likely potential for risk is? Need I say more? ?? ............ probably. Jo R - now see, where did I ever say that you said crawling under the belly was ok? I said that I assumed your neighbour did not think going under the belly was a good idea either? See your slipping again ..... Being a younger woman, with more horses does not necessarily mean you know more than your neighbour - that is your assumption. As for my equine experience, again I reiterate the question - "What level of equine experience is neccessary in order to hold an opinion that crawling under the belly is an unsafe activity"?
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Post by wildrover on Dec 18, 2005 12:00:25 GMT 1
By the way Francis - as for the force of the horses hoof while swatting a fly - the speed of which it travel to the belly is going to be far greater than that at time of impact.
Try it yourself ..... next time a fly lands on your nose, you will notice your hand will travel very quickly to your nose and then slow to stopping point. Any object in the path of your hand would feel a greater force than your nose ................... assuming, of course, you dont go smacking yourself around the head for fun ............
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Post by VictoriaA on Dec 18, 2005 13:44:04 GMT 1
Pretty much like many others I usually go round the back of my 2, as I know them so well, always have a hand on bum and talk to them so they know I am there. But with a horse I don't know I either take a massively wide berth round the rear end out of kicking range, or go round the front.
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