pip
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by pip on Dec 29, 2007 21:47:31 GMT 1
My horse had his shoes off 2 years ago. He has gone without boots on his back feet for about 6 months now and is about 100% on the backs.
But he still couldn't be said to be 100% on the fronts. I am riding him on the roads without boots but he still feels the grit and feels less sure than earlier in the autumn. I have really concentrated on his feet this autumn, thinking that I might have to put shoes back on the front if he didn't come 100%.
If I just wanted to hack it would be OK, but I do like to do some competitions like dressage and showing, and other things. I didn't compete for a year because I was worried about him being sore on the car park, for instance.
I don't think I can improve on how he is kept or his diet, so this is as good as it gets and I don't know if it is quite good enough.
There were reasons why we went barefoot in the first place, as I was having trouble with his front feet, he was sound though, and he also kept his shoes on and there was nothing really bad. I have had a few wobbles, but they got less and less as I went on, but I just feel I have NEARLY got there, but not quite.
Anyone any opinions
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Dec 29, 2007 22:00:22 GMT 1
Do you know why he's still not 100% comfortable? Is there some bit of the foot that's a bit weak? Or too much wear? LGL? Best way to deal with it depends a lot on what 'it' is! What problems caused you to try barefoot in the first place?
How bad is the ouchyness? Just the very occasional small 'maybe I'll put my foot down elsewhere' when landing on something pointy on top of tarmac is good sense not a problem but ouching badly or a lot is more worrying.
What is current diet? And how is he kept?
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Post by butterfly on Dec 29, 2007 22:00:48 GMT 1
Listen to your gut feeling!!!
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Post by Yann on Dec 29, 2007 22:07:04 GMT 1
Most of us keep horses to enjoy them and whilst doing that we also make choices about how and where we keep them. For most of us that will mean livery yards, and I think quite often there may well be a limit to how far you can take a set of hooves in that situation without compromising your horse's mental welfare and your own enjoyment of it. I'm in a similar position to some degree, but there's no real good reason for me to go back to shoes because I just use boots instead where I need to and they don't compromise what I want to do with the horses. There would be absolutely nothing stopping you for example from shoeing for the competition season and barefooting for the rest of the year if that's what worked best for you and your horse. Nothing is set in stone and it's not an irreversible decision
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pip
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by pip on Dec 29, 2007 22:07:34 GMT 1
There is quite a lot of wear. He also wants to walk on the verge a lot (which is what he wanted to do when he had shoes on and and was suffering from corns, plus various lumps and swellings around his knees, nor was he walking correctly as he was putting his toes down first, and he was walking as if his shoes were too tight and his feet were hurting, which they were!).
He is fed Dengie Hi Fi Chaff, unmolassed sugar beet pulp, D & H Balancer, plus magnesium, ground, cooked linseed and an Indian Herbs herb for better feet. Previously he was on Top Spec Balancer, but took him off this as he had quite a lot of hoof wall separatation and I can't get Lo Cal from my supplier.
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Post by Yann on Dec 29, 2007 22:20:46 GMT 1
The fact that he had so many problems shod would also skew my decision. There are often other things you can try, trying a different trimmer can sometimes help, restricting grazing or using a muzzle for example.
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Post by gingeremmie on Dec 29, 2007 22:21:45 GMT 1
What about grass/forage part of his diet?
Have you spoken to your farrier/trimmer about your concerns, they'd be the best person to advise you. It sounds as though he wasn't happy in shoes, so you have made progress, maybe you just need a few tweaks here and there to get him 100%? You can always boot him on the fronts whenever necessary, eg to cross the car park at a show, and then take the boots off as you enter the arena.
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Post by Donnalex on Dec 29, 2007 22:22:08 GMT 1
Dont give up yet! If hes living out maybe his feet are softer due to the wet ground and therefore wearing away a bit more? Try putting your boots on again until the ground dries up a bit unless of course, hes mostly stabled.
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Azrael
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by Azrael on Dec 29, 2007 22:22:49 GMT 1
What kind of condition are the feet in now? Have they improved since being barefoot? One of mine had problems with TS as well and it did take a while for the damage to grow out, how long has he been off topspec and is there improved growth since? Trying shoes again or just shoeing for time of year you do most work/competing could work. But since he wasn't ok in shoes before its maybe not quite as simple as just structure not quite up to what you want to do/too much wear so put some shoes on and all will be fine. You could always try shoes, easy enough to take them off again if it doesn't work out Edited to add: if car parks at competitions are the main problem, have you tried going anyway and seeing how bad it really is? I took fatso out to do dressage when her feet were still horrible and noone even noticed that there was the occasional stone she didn't like on the car park, and it didn't do her any harm.
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Post by june on Dec 29, 2007 22:30:58 GMT 1
Have you done any work in pads? We found using pads made quite a difference to the horses' feet. I used them quite a lot over summer when turning horses out and it helped a lot with the growth and the "ouchiness". KC La Pierre also has a new wrap coming out very shortly. If you have a look at his US website there is some stuff on there about it. It looks like it might be the answer for you.
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Post by horsey123 on Dec 29, 2007 22:34:36 GMT 1
dont give up
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Post by joto on Dec 29, 2007 22:39:35 GMT 1
can you boot his front feet t home, for hacking and schooling and then compete bootless? I think this has a good chance of working well.
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debbiec
Elementary Poster
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Post by debbiec on Dec 30, 2007 0:02:15 GMT 1
Well if his feet hurt him when he was in shoes why do you think putting shoes on now will solve the problem?
You need to do what's right regardless of whether that's being shod or unshod. Personally I'm far more concerned with whether feet are healthy and horses are sound rather than if they're shod or not. If his feet are sore without shoes then you do have a problem somewhere. Shoes may not solve it but if they make him more comfortable then it could be worth a try. They can always be taken off again if they're not helping.
What are his feet like now? Are they very weak? Have you had any advice from a vet/farrier/trimmer?
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Post by Susan on Dec 30, 2007 0:22:31 GMT 1
I am not going to say give up or not.. but think this
Shoes restrict circulation.That is proven fact.
So if you consider your own body put a rubber band on your arm, and then give time for the circulation to restrict what you feel in your hands. Eventually you can feel less even put your hands in very hot water that before you could not because it was too hot and it hurt.
That is shoes. So does it make sense to let your horse feel less so it can cope better? is the question?
I have been this route well over 2 years and a few weeks back we had amazing changes and Flynn was walking out over stones as if they were not there, then last weekend he changed back, we had footy on stones and picking his route and pulling me to the grass. Do I say he cant cope, NO but he is feeling more sensitive at this time. Why..? I actually think it is sugars in the grass and diet. Due to frosts we stopped soaking hay so it wasn't frozen, I do it so he has less sugar. The frosts create higher sugars.. I cant prove this but suspect it is true.
I do have boots.. I hate them but if we need then we can put them on.
Pads on do certainly help more then I can say.. backing June again in this area..
I also am waiting to trial this new wrap by KC that June speaks of that will aid the foot condition unlike anything we have seen in our past for the unshod horse.
I also say to myself..how often do we need help.. out of a full week made up of 24 hours a day x 7 days in the week. Does that justify nails 100% of the time and a metal shoe. to me it does not.
In a shod horse he cant tell you as much as he can as a unshod horse is that better or worse? I want to know the most information, even if it does make my like a little more complicated.
Do you have a farrier trim or a trimmer and what school does their training come from.. it still is a big new world..
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Post by Yann on Dec 30, 2007 9:30:34 GMT 1
I don't think they restrict it in the way you describe but I can accept that they reduce the amount of blood flow through the foot during movement. Horses with shoes can still feel their feet, they aren't numb. The shoe lifts the sole off the ground, eliminates lever forces on the white line and reduces the amount of expansion in the hoof capsule, all of which make a horse more comfortable.
If you're looking at putting shoes on a horse that's hobbling on any surface just to get it sound, then that's one thing, but a genuinely nearly but not quite case might be a different matter in my book if it meant being able to get the horse out doing what you wanted to do.
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