anniearab
Intermediate Poster
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 128
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Post by anniearab on Jan 2, 2011 19:23:00 GMT 1
Lovely photo but did you abuse/hit around the head/thrash across the chest? or did you put your own interpretation into it? I have several friends who practice natural horsemanship BUT do not follow the Parellis abusive methods.
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lynn
Olympic Poster
Posts: 502
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Post by lynn on Jan 2, 2011 19:27:22 GMT 1
I have just watched the youtube clip and all i can say is OMG, what are they trying to achieve.
I see no point in flicking the rope, pulling and pushing the horse round without any clear indication of what the person on the ground is asking. All i can say is that horse must have the patience of a saint.
After watching that clip, I personally no longer wish to align myself with the BHS - yes they have done good work in the past for horses, but there are other welfare places out there that do equally good work, my membership wont be renewed.
I wish IHDG had gone forward with the package Kelly was looking into.
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jinglejoys
Grand Prix Poster
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 3,503
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Post by jinglejoys on Jan 2, 2011 20:02:21 GMT 1
Lovely photo but did you abuse/hit around the head/thrash across the chest? or did you put your own interpretation into it? I have several friends who practice natural horsemanship BUT do not follow the Parellis abusive methods. I followed the instructions ;D
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Post by lisap on Jan 2, 2011 21:37:10 GMT 1
Parelli is not my thing, but we have a few people near to us who use the Quantum savvy methods (parelli with an Aussie accent!).
I have been *incredibly* impressed with the quietness of their approach, how calm previously semi-feral horses and ponies have become - a few of them have been long term classed as 'problem' ponies. The teenage girl and her mum who do most of the work are extremely competent riders and handlers and their results are to be applauded.
However, there was another lady who has since left the neighbouring yard, who took the QS to a total extreme. her horse was drilled, and drilled and drilled. He was completely robotic and switched off, and really pretty miserable. She was using the same trainers, the same system, but the result was sorrowful. So, the only real problem was the interpretation of the method.
I don't like what I've seen on the videos, and hate the way Linda Parelli teaches riding and the seat with a passion, but there is no doubt that the method works for lots of people, and more importantly, their horses. Frankly, I think the BHS may have to run with this in the same way as they do with the CRC, and Intelligent Horsemanship, if only to be even-handed in showing alternative approaches to horsemastership.
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Post by heather on Jan 2, 2011 22:11:24 GMT 1
But Lisa, have you ever seen Kelly or Sylvia Loch, hitting a horse, any horse, never mind a half blind one, round the head, or trussing up a horse like a Christmas turkey?
This is why I have no problem with the BHS associating with either IH or the CRC- I am a member of both, but I sure as hell wouldnt touch Parelli with a barge pole.
Yes, as with everything, if their methods are carried out by intelligent people who know when the levels of pressure are acceptable, but I have seen too many examples when they do not, and the horse ends up a dope on a rope.
Heather
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Jane
Olympic Poster
Colo ("koala")
Posts: 938
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Post by Jane on Jan 3, 2011 8:07:48 GMT 1
Parelli is not my thing, but we have a few people near to us who use the Quantum savvy methods (parelli with an Aussie accent!). I have been *incredibly* impressed with the quietness of their approach, how calm previously semi-feral horses and ponies have become - a few of them have been long term classed as 'problem' ponies. There are a huge number of natural horsemanship practitioners and trainers over here who are *ex* Parelli, often for a variety of reasons, including some of those cited by Heather (love the ''dope on a rope''!). Many recognise that they have stepped out of one box only to get into another, so now need to think outside that box too. I think that's key to avoiding the tunnel vision problems that led directly to the Catwalk incident last year.
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Post by BJMM on Jan 3, 2011 9:40:44 GMT 1
Jinglejoys says she followed the instructions. Shame Linda and Pat Parelli don't practice what they preach (and charge £100's for!)
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Post by BJMM on Jan 3, 2011 9:43:51 GMT 1
PS Maybe they oughta sit down together and watch the dvd's and read the manuals. To paraphrase Jim Royle: "Love, Language and Leadership, my ar*e!!"
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Post by mandal on Jan 3, 2011 11:11:27 GMT 1
Parelli is not my thing, but we have a few people near to us who use the Quantum savvy methods (parelli with an Aussie accent!). I have been *incredibly* impressed with the quietness of their approach, how calm previously semi-feral horses and ponies have become - a few of them have been long term classed as 'problem' ponies. The teenage girl and her mum who do most of the work are extremely competent riders and handlers and their results are to be applauded. However, there was another lady who has since left the neighbouring yard, who took the QS to a total extreme. her horse was drilled, and drilled and drilled. He was completely robotic and switched off, and really pretty miserable. She was using the same trainers, the same system, but the result was sorrowful. So, the only real problem was the interpretation of the method. The individual human doing the training is for me now the most important factor whatever the training method or philosophy.
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Post by Yann on Jan 3, 2011 11:22:49 GMT 1
I'm pretty much of that mind too.
The concern about Parelli is justified to some extent, but where do you draw the line? There are people about who think some of the stuff Monty does is abusive, and could conceivably object to the BHS having anything to do with IH on the same basis.
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Post by heather on Jan 3, 2011 11:27:23 GMT 1
Agree Yann, and mandal, as with everything, whether it be bit, saddle, training method or whatever, it is down to the human that uses it.
But surely, it is up to the figureheads of such organisations as Parelli to set the best possible example? This is why I am so anti Parelli, not so much their methods ( although Linda's Riding in Floppidity, er..... sorry, 'Fluidity', drives me to murderous intent when I see her teaching it!) as the fact that the two people in that organisation that their members most look up to and would wish to emulate, are Pat and Linda themselves, surely?
Heather
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Amanda Seater
Grand Prix Poster
Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
Posts: 3,866
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Post by Amanda Seater on Jan 3, 2011 11:28:03 GMT 1
I think it is a shame that NH should be tarred with the "Parelli bad videos brush" I think they are dreadful. Like Lisa and others I have seen some fabulous work. Not everyone likes the idea of join up and some may consider that cruel but they don't ditch IH. I consider the the kick pull, hit it and tie it down attitude of many(NOT ALL) BHS instructors as unacceptable - BUT there is some fab stuff from there too.
TO be honest it is a political minefield and I totally agree with Mandal about it being the people applying the method. Many talented NH trainers are EX parelli for the reason that they have moved on to using the tools in a different manner or combining them with other training "systems" with better and more solid results.
It has to be said that Parelli, IH, BHS, CRC even EE etc are often starting points.
Starting points for people to begin to understand and learn for themselves. There is bad and not so great in every system either in the present or in the past. Maybe we should not be a member of any association - my thought is that would be bad for the horse in the big picture as it is as a group we have a larger influence. One would hope that influence at the end of the day is to encourage an individual to keep learning and finding more subtle practices for dealing with the horse.
Better to be open and question the bad points than closed and miss the possible good ones.
Happy New Year
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Post by heather on Jan 3, 2011 17:20:29 GMT 1
I still say that the heads of such an influential organisation should be above reproach, Amanda, if they are to set an example that a welfare organisation would wish to promote.
If the Parellis had admitted to their mistakes in the videos I have cited, then fair enough, I could accept that, but all they have done is try to justify their actions, not a shred of remorse, and that is why I am so against the BHS having any truck with them.
Heather
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Post by laurac on Jan 3, 2011 21:01:23 GMT 1
I hate the way Linda P looses the plot with the partically sighted horse This lady Ellen seems to use parelli style sending away out of your space stuff but in a kind and calm way, Linda could learn a lot from her! www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP6WdKZLv0U
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Post by Francis Burton on Jan 3, 2011 21:28:57 GMT 1
Yes, I like what Ellen Ostad does a lot more - with a similarly nervous and distracted horse. For one thing, it makes sense behaviourally (unlike what Linda Parelli does ), and she has better "feel". She may well be "doing Parelli" in that clip. Whatever it is, it's totally different from what we see in the Barney one and (imo) much, much nicer to watch.
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