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Post by malcsmum on Jan 4, 2011 21:27:48 GMT 1
Heather - I have always admired your work - read your book and have one of your saddles but I have to say that I do find your attacks on the Parellis quite unprofessional I am afraid. There are many people who successfully use the Parelli methods and have transformed horses and their own riding ability. You offend people who actually want the same thing as you - humane treatment of our wonderful equine friends and who have found it - albeit using different methods to you.
The videos you have displayed on your website have been discussed at length on the forums and the fact is that people who understand the method also understand that neither show abuse of the horse.
Think about it when you go on about people overusing the method and turning their horses into dopes on ropes - it is fair to say that the Parellis horses are not robotic drones but should they be held responsible for people that practise the method badly? Do you take responsibility for the quality of my riding because I have bought your book? I doubt it and if my bad riding in one of your saddles damages my horses back is that your fault too?
Anyone that puts themselves out there with a 'method' is going to come up against critisism and people who apply your methods badly. You will continute to promote your methods as you know they work even if ridiculed by others - your promotion of the pelham as a training tool, for example. Yet you know it works so you continue to promote it. It is the same for the Parelli's. They know their methods work and yet also know they cannot be held responsible for everyone elses actions.
Being as important in the horse world as you are, why don't you ask to meet them and discuss their methods when they are over here next. I would admire you much more for doing that than your continued bashing of the method and the people that use it.
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Bay Mare
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Speak to the hoof
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Post by Bay Mare on Jan 4, 2011 21:58:47 GMT 1
The videos you have displayed on your website have been discussed at length on the forums and the fact is that people who understand the method also understand that neither show abuse of the horse. Do you seriously believe that those two videos don't show abuse of the horse? I don't need to be L4 Parelli to understand that both Pat and Linda's actions in those videos was inappropriate and abusive. I will agree that you can't always blame the head of an organisation for people's interpretation of their method but it is Pat and Linda that have been found very much wanting in these instances not their followers. Maybe I'm just a fluffy bunny tree hugger but their behaviour towards the horses in those videos turned my stomach
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Jan 4, 2011 22:19:07 GMT 1
I agree Bay Mare. I don't think Heather is bashing the Parelli method per se, she is bashing the fact that it is actually Linda & Pat, who are meant to be at the top of their game, are seen abusing the horses, not the followers of the method who are getting it wrong.
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Post by donnalex on Jan 4, 2011 23:03:56 GMT 1
Anyone that puts themselves out there with a 'method' is going to come up against critisism and people who apply your methods badly. Fair comment but this is not other people applying Parelli techniques badly, it is the woman herself practising bad and abusive horse handling. Both the blind horse video and the Catwalk saga were borne from them showing off, their ego let them make a bad judgement. But who knows what happens when there is no watchers and recorders?
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Post by malcsmum on Jan 4, 2011 23:04:02 GMT 1
Neither horse is scared, in fact the opposite in both cases. Linda is trying to get the horse to respect her space and Pat is trying to help a horse get over a severe phobia whilst ensuring his own personal safety. Neither case is abuse - perhaps not what people expect of 'natural horsemanship' as people incorrectly expect this to be all fluffy bunny stuff and it isn't. Horses are not naturally all sweetness and light to each other. Sometimes 'leadership' requires dealing with issues head-on and requires a level of energy that matches the horses behaviour as a herd leader would. Surely this is better than avoiding issues until they get out of hand and the horses become more and more dangerous - I fear this is one of the main reason so many are destroyed and branded as being untrainable.
From what I have read on this and other forums Heather is pretty demonstrative of her dislike of the method and therefore the people that practise them.
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Post by heather on Jan 4, 2011 23:32:09 GMT 1
Oh I tried to meet them, malcsmum, at Equitana in Kentucky when I was lecturing in the next hall. And that was in the early days when I was extremely open minded. But I was not of interest to them, and my friendly invitation to meet was rebuffed.
I had also been in touch with Linda since, to offer to show them the simulators, as the 'simulator' they had, was little more than a leather covered barrel with a handle one end- looked like one of those old railway trolleys being pumped up!, but again, rather curt rebuttal.
This in no way coloured my judgement, frankly, I was not the greatest Monty/Kelly fan in the earlier days!! But as I got to know Kelly over the years, I learned that she would never treat horses in the way that Linda treated Barney, or would treat a horse the way that Pat treated Catwalk, and this is why she has my respect.
I repeat, had the Parellis admitted that they were too harsh in their treatment of those horses and shown some remorse, but their attempts to justify their actions reinforced my contempt for them.
Unprofessional in my condemnation? Frankly, I don't give a s*** for what people think of me! All I care about, is the welfare of the horse, and if that makes me unprofessional, then so be it.
Heather
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Post by limepickle on Jan 4, 2011 23:38:06 GMT 1
Neither horse is scared, in fact the opposite in both cases. Linda is trying to get the horse to respect her space and Pat is trying to help a horse get over a severe phobia whilst ensuring his own personal safety. Slightly off-topic, but: In my completely amateur opinion, if I was trying to get a horse to pay attention to me and have some semblance of respect for me, I would first of all attempt some kind of groundwork in a quiet environment, away from any possible distraction. I am also appalled at this BHS promotion and hope this can be resolved without too many members suddenly dropping!
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Post by heather on Jan 4, 2011 23:43:58 GMT 1
I admit there are times when more drastic measures need to be taken- hell, I had enough flak over rescuing Woody, the horse that Monty used the gum line on at the Grange demo in 2008! I have no wish to go over that debacle again, but when it is a matter of life and death, there are times when more desperate action is needed.
But, I cannot for the life of me see, how that one eyed horse deserved the treatment he got, or Catwalk either. You say that neither horse was frightened- how do you know? I do not care how experienced the Parellis are- I have dealt with horses like these and worse all my life and have never needed to resort to this sort of treatment.
I am sure that some people might have misinterpreted my meaning in my book, just as some may misinterpret the Parelli methods.That is inevitable. But we are not talking about other people misinterpreting, but the actions of the Parelli's themselves.
I always state that anyone can turn up unannounced at my yard, at a clinic, at a demo whatever, and I would never, ever be doing anything to a horse that I wouldnt want to be seen in public. I could never treat a horse in the way that the Parellis did, and I certainly can never condone the In a Whisper Challenge, do you really think this is the way to treat a 2 yr old horse, malcsmum?
Sometimes, I do wonder just why I bother to stick my neck out, and get rocks aimed at my head, but then if I can make the lives of a few more horses better as a result, what the hell. I can live with a few bruises.
Heather
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Post by anastasia55555 on Jan 5, 2011 0:12:22 GMT 1
You say that neither horse was frightened- how do you know? I do not care how experienced the Parellis are- I have dealt with horses like these and worse all my life and have never needed to resort to this sort of treatment. I would be interested to see how the horses heart rates (among other things) in these situations being 'trained' by P & L react, in comparison to Monty, Kelly and others techniques, and infact also other people that follow Parelli. As i can see it does work for some people, JingleJ for one at least and i know of a friend of hers here in Worcs, i would be interested to compare between the work that they do, and the Parelli's themselves to see which work better, in my head and heart i know which it would be. Personally, and people have their right to their own opinion too, that L & P have gone right off track in so many ways. If i wanted an entertaining show i would think of L&P (not that i would want that personally), if i wanted help and guidance for a real life hard situation it would be kelly and monty i would look to everytime
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Post by anastasia55555 on Jan 5, 2011 0:14:25 GMT 1
I also meant to add i suspect L&P would not be in the slightest bit interested to entertain any kind of 'scientific' test or comparison to anyone else. Maybe because they would feel threatened? Concerned about the outcome? Who knows, but i would be beyond suprised if they ever agreed to anything like that
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Post by bertie666 on Jan 5, 2011 0:44:23 GMT 1
I find it so ironic that every time there is a thread regarding parelli we get 'novice' posters giving their blinkered input in defence of their idols Parelli is not only invasive, confusing and emotional blackmail to the horse it also encourages movements, such as frequent disengagement of the hindquarters which cause back problems. The above is obviously aside from the disgusting behaviour exhibited by Pat and Linda in the afore mentioned incidents. I suspect the BHS are trying to tap into the money train that is the Parelli marketing machine, with no thought other than publicity whether good or bad. Well done you Heather for trying to enlighten them. (no pun intended )
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Post by Del Boy on Jan 5, 2011 0:51:39 GMT 1
As someone who has just watched both videos, I would not now be interested in studying their methods!
Call me old fashioned, but I take as I find.
I obviously feel very sorry for the horses, the students and anyone else watching this, who thinks this is the way to treat horses.
As for Heather, I have always found her to be one of the most caring and professional people I have met, so, if;
All I care about, is the welfare of the horse, and if that makes me unprofessional, then so be it.
Then that makes two of us!
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jinglejoys
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Post by jinglejoys on Jan 5, 2011 0:56:07 GMT 1
I find it so ironic that every time there is a thread regarding parelli we get 'novice' posters giving their blinkered input in defence of their idols Parelli is not only invasive, confusing and emotional blackmail to the horse it also encourages movements, such as frequent disengagement of the hindquarters which cause back problems. The above is obviously aside from the disgusting behaviour exhibited by Pat and Linda in the afore mentioned incidents. I suspect the BHS are trying to tap into the money train that is the Parelli marketing machine, with no thought other than publicity whether good or bad. Well done you Heather for trying to enlighten them. (no pun intended ) Excuse me but I am NOT a novice poster!
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Post by anastasia55555 on Jan 5, 2011 0:56:46 GMT 1
JJ i dont think Bertie meant you!
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Post by bertie666 on Jan 5, 2011 1:16:44 GMT 1
I didnt, hence the novice bit duh! I was meaning the ones who actually join a forum they have no other interest in just to praise Linda and Pat. Brainwashed much!?
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