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Post by bhpride on Dec 29, 2007 14:16:52 GMT 1
Tia's in a bubble bit top ring, she's well schooled, sensible, responsive but you've got no chance when she's excited whilst jumping..very strong and hard to pull up in a snaffle. Saying that I've never put her on the middle ring or changed anything whilst I've had her as I tend to laugh at her as I have no control (I'm awful for that, still better than being nervous)..lol Seriously though, well schooled or not, horses are always stronger and if you're hunting etc I'd understand the need for something stronger judging from how Tia is.
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 29, 2007 15:30:14 GMT 1
Quite so,numbat.
The whole problem is that people really arent aware of what is happening in the horses mouth imho. The reason I prefer pelhams to gags is because they work on different points,so I can see why certain horses might respond better,but the gag is simply more leverage,therefore more pain/pressure.
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Post by mellymoo on Dec 29, 2007 19:05:45 GMT 1
This is such an interesting discussion. I cannot add anything, as I have given up trying to bit Hamish and put him in a sidepull - which he goes well in btw - but to those of you that have a clue, I salute you!!!
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Vic
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Post by Vic on Dec 29, 2007 19:30:51 GMT 1
I think the tone was a bit off really, i mean everyone is entitled to their opinion, its just the way it gets said sometimes, at the end of the day just because you have an opinion on a subject doesn't mean you are totally right and how, really can you make an informed judgement from a photo??? To be so dogmatic i don't think is the point of a discussion place, in some cases on here i have witnessed arguments between two people i really respect and also, i think respect each other, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree, after all who would say that they are the oracle on horse? !!! I also agree with SF about how we really have little idea what goes on in our horses mouth, i mean is all well and good us sticking bits on our arm and pulling and i don't doubt that it gives us some idea of whats going on but we still won't fully know i don't think......i often wonder what it would be like to be a horse for a day just to see what everything REALLY feels like (Yes, i am off in la la land!!!) I find this thread really interesting, partly because i am a geek and LOVE bits (i used to have a great collection when i was younger that i was very proud of....beats collecting stamps!!!) but also because hunting is my next thing to try with Ted and as we have never been before i will put something stronger in his mouth....i hope that our schooling will mean that he doesn't need it but i think for our first time, for safety's sake i would like to have something a bit stronger just in case....although i am making sure that i do lots of extra work on my transitions before i go as well....thinking of a pelham maybe after reading this as i know he has had one in his mouth before..... Well done Emily for being so calm, you with the lovely red hair, does that not come with a fiery temper???!!! I don't blame you for asking others opinions, it is horrible when you feel someone questions your care for your horse, you can end up feeling really wrong footed, and it can make you question what you do, even if you know you have really thought it through and are doing a good job.xxxx
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 29, 2007 20:53:49 GMT 1
Hi vic, Could I just say that if you are thinking of using a stronger bit for hunting to make sure you use it at home first?! Im sure you would anyway,but just in case! I did like the idea that somebody had of keeping the mouthpiece the same so that it was easier to move between the two.
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Vic
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Post by Vic on Dec 29, 2007 21:49:40 GMT 1
hmmmm, yes i will. Not really wanting to use it as a long term thing, more as a 'just in case' for the first time!!! He's in a sweet iron french link now, i know his old owners used to ride him in a pelham which is why i was thinking of one but do you have any other suggestions SF??? Or do you think i should just take him in the f/link and if it all goes wrong take him home?? As you can see i am oh so decisive!!!!
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Post by pinkpony on Dec 29, 2007 22:06:59 GMT 1
really and trully, i reckon about 60% of all i know about bitting has been learned through reading this thread. Any one point me to a good book about it.....?
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 29, 2007 22:23:43 GMT 1
pinkpony,not a book,but did you read this yet? www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.phpI must admit I havent had time,so can you let me know if it is any good?! Vic, tbh,I never,never use any form of harsher bits,I have never felt the need and prefer to use other tools like the one rein stop,circling a loopy horse when out for the first time,voice training etc. BUT,I wouldnt take anything hunting that I didnt have under good control in other situations first. If you have good control at home then I really dont see why you shouldnt be safe in the same bit on the hunt field. Dont people take their horses cubbing first for experience anymore? Or doesnt that work now hunting is supposed to be banned?! Thats the way it used to be done,as cubbing was quieter and slower with less people.
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Post by pinkpony on Dec 29, 2007 22:35:03 GMT 1
Ooo thanks sf, looks good, erm,,,,see you in about 3 days....
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nuala
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Post by nuala on Dec 29, 2007 22:57:58 GMT 1
'as we have never been before i will put something stronger in his mouth' vic- I would say that you risk a worse scenario, saw one today of a wee pony with a three ring in just in case. Because he felt he couldn't go forward he was bouncing, spinning pshyco. When the bit was reduced he was a much calmer horse, since it was all that was needed. I would stick to your normal bitting arrangement. At the end of the day you can always peel off and head home if he gets strong and then you can consider differnet nosebands/bits etc. Just my thoughts
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Vic
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Post by Vic on Dec 29, 2007 23:03:14 GMT 1
Totally agree with you Sarahfox as regards circles etc to school for slowing down, and will definately be trying to teach him the one rein stop, to be honest i am pretty certain that i will be ok with regards my breaks, i hack in the french link, school in it, go to the beach in it, go on mad gallops across the field with it (!) and showjump in it and apart from the odd stride hesitation which is more of a 'oh mum, do i really have to stop now, its so fun....oh well if your sure.....' my brakes are good and i take my little horse everywhere. I'm just worried as i can't think of how to practice a hunting situation and i have learnt never to be totally certain in my predictions about how a horse will behave!!! I'm a bit scared that i will do something wrong and that someone will shout at me and Ted.........
I'm not the greatest at harsh bits as i never used them on my jumping ponies, my philosophy was that as long as i was going in the right direction brakes weren't absolutely essensial and i was more worried about missing the stride and taking their teeth out with a strong bit thus hurting and scaring them than i was stopping at the end. Oh to be 14 again!!!
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 29, 2007 23:39:39 GMT 1
Well it would be hard to completely recreate the hunt situation without going,but how about trying things like a fast ride with several others,and having a couple go off away from you whilst your horse stands and waits? Also is your horse used to dogs? that could be something you could recreate perhaps? It is true that you can run into worse problems with a harsh bit than without. I generally find that as long as they are allowed to move their feet ( ie,circling) you should retain decent control,you cab always just go for a short time the first time,maybe just go to the meet and then leave? Tbh I gather that most hunts have plenty of 'newbies' these days so you are far less likely to be reprimanded than 20 years ago!
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Vic
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Post by Vic on Dec 30, 2007 0:49:54 GMT 1
I don't know several other people who would go fast on a ride!!! I have one friend who will do anything (and who i will go hunting with-luckily he and his horse have been loads before) but no one else really leaves walk on a ride, if they go out in the first place. He's used to dogs, there's a few on the yard that tend to run about/get in the way so not massively worried there.
I think your right about the moving about thing, Ted's a right fidget so there is no way he would be happy standing still for ages (although he is getting a bit better...i think!!) but he's fine as long as he's given a bit of rein so he'd happily wander in a circle for a bit.
I just need to bite the bullet and go really, just being a bit of a faffer about it even though i am desperate to go!!! Can't go for the next month as i'm busy but i think i will give it a go in the french link and see, Tbh the worst that will happen is that he gets way over the top and we don't go again, he doesn't get dangerous when he's excited. Reckon your right about the short time though, do a little bit and then take him home and build it up as he gets used to it, i'm a bit over protective of messing him up. Thanks for the help.x
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Post by Emily+Meg on Dec 30, 2007 9:51:32 GMT 1
Nuala has a point I know someone who swopped their snaffle for a double bridle, and it completely unsettled their horse, send her crazy.
I do still tend to opt for something stronger 'in case' as I have had problems with being tanked, by a pony that I genuinely thought would be fine to hunt in a snaffle, lol.
I did take Wills in a happy mouth bubble bit first time but was able to swop to a snaffle second time.
Fingers crossed for Meg and Nikki both eventually hunting in snaffles, but personally rather safe than sorry. If you want to try in a stronger bit, ride in it first and check your horse doesn't object.
Have fun as well, its such a good day out.
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