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Post by rach20uk on Dec 28, 2007 3:08:11 GMT 1
Personally i would think they were rude. As Emily knows if i have any questions about anything she posts (same as any of you) that i think may cause a problem on the board i PM it but i wouldnt dare put something like that - its very accusational.
I was always taught and ride as such - you can put barbed wire in a horses mouth and it wouldnt hurt - its the hands that cause the pain and just as much damage can be done in a snaffle/happy mouth as can with any other bit
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
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Post by laura on Dec 28, 2007 3:20:04 GMT 1
echo the well dones to ponypit for discussing things openly. oh dear sarahfox ...... at the tisk of becoming a "clique" I agree wholeheartedly with you yet again ..... depite you being classical dressage and me NH imo most bits make more difference to the riders than the horse ( again,not aimed at emily or anybody specific) in that they give the rider belief that they have brakes and so stop them pulling and panicking,therefore leaving the horses mouth alone unless they are giving a short aid,this is the reason why pelhams etc work so well with kids. I also think that if you need brakes then you would be far better perfecting the one rein stop,this is by far the most effective emergency brake that i have ever used and it works from a headcollar too! One rein stop DEF works , even with upset welsh cobs Taking the bit out of a "no brakes" horse is a scary thing to do .... I know from experience ..... but it was honestly the single best thing I did for a "dangerous" horse.!!!!! just have not reached the point yet ... (dont know if I ever will ) where we need "extra refinement" that MAY be provided with a bit ( debatable but I am no expert ).
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Cheryl Walmsley
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Post by Cheryl Walmsley on Dec 28, 2007 4:03:59 GMT 1
It's funny whilst we're on the subject. I recently had a riding instructor refuse to teach me because she felt I was involved in dangerous practices!! I never fully got to the bottom of what practices they were apart from one, which was riding without brakes, on the dually. Weird or what?
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Post by iwillbuy on Dec 28, 2007 6:50:59 GMT 1
i think every horse i have ever bought in has always come in a gag, i don,t take it out straight away, i don,t have the luxury of a schooling area and i have to take them out to find out what they are like schooling 99% of them didn,t need the extra brakes and i found the gag actually caused the problem but i ride them in it first, but i have had a few horses which have hated the snaffle be it a french link or nutcracker action so i don,t think snaffles suit all horses i did have a welsh once who the owner said when hunting it must go in a dr bristol or else you couldn,t stop it and when she handed me the bit it was actually a french link snaffle so i do think like what laura said it is a bit mind over matter the girl thought she had full control whilst hunting in a dr bristol but she had full control in the french link
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Post by iwillbuy on Dec 28, 2007 6:53:30 GMT 1
and also i was taught not to swap your bits if you show, hunt or do whatever with your horse you should always train or work in the same bit
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Post by hazelhorse on Dec 28, 2007 7:11:17 GMT 1
Iwillbuy that is a fine sentiment, and I wish it could be true for all horses. Unfortunately, there are horses who, either through past handling and experiences or natural exuberance, change personality when they are out and about. My daughter has a 12 hand pony who was a bit of a handful all the time when we bought her, but with schooling and gentle handling she is now a poppet at home. However when we go out, even to a PC rally she fires up into a handful again. Now the only way we have to hopefully school this behaviour out of her is to keep taking her out, and handling her gently and consistantly in the hope that she will settle (probably just in time for her to be totally outgrown, as we are heading that way fast). I would love her to be able to go out in her hanging cheek that she goes so sweetly in at home, and we do try, when she is being particularly good and has been calmer out and about. Our last try was indoor jumping as we thought not much harm could come to them, just as well as the pony took off at a great rate of knots, and the wall was useful! So whilst we are reschooling the pony, who has hunted and the like in the past, we do need a change of bit and I'm afraid, tin hat on, we use a gag on the second ring with an identical mouthpiece to her normal bit. The latter is vital if we are to ever manage the change back to her snaffle. Personally, with a child with good quiet soft hands I feel happier with this than the pony galloping off at PC rallies going flat out through other lessons and into watching parents. My daughter obviously uses her hanging cheek if we are out doing dressage, but we have to be careful about venues. The pony can just about control herself if the arenas are away from warm ups and not too close together. We seek out these venues as valuable reschooling oportunities.
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Post by jennyb on Dec 28, 2007 7:47:39 GMT 1
Yes, I agree the PMs are rather rude! I wouldn't have even bothered replying to the second one, as you say, why should you justify yourself to a stranger? As for dutch gags, well, I am also a hater I'm afraid! Put the mouthpiece round the sensitive inside of your arm, then get someone to take the rein rings and pull - they won't be able to pull very hand before you are yelping, especially if it's a nutcracker snaffle mouthpiece. Now put your index finger in your mouth, press down on your tongue and try to swallow - you can't, right? Feel like you're choking? Those two little "tests" are why I am very careful indeed to try to choose mouthpieces that are kind and gentle to the horse and give some tongue relief. I'd agree with SF, for brakes in a hunting type situation I would choose a ported pelham and ride on two reins. JMHO, and I'm happy to put my opinions and reasons for them on the public board too!
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natalia
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by natalia on Dec 28, 2007 8:42:06 GMT 1
Sorry, gag for me out hunting with thick mouth peice, so when pony put nose to the floor and gallops flat out in to 4 ft hedge I can get his head back up and maybe have half a chance of getting a stride. SAFTEY FIRST!
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 8:59:46 GMT 1
Now this has raised some VERY interesting points,what a great discussion! It would seem to me that the mouthpiece that is used is EXTREMELY important! ie; a gag with a happy mouth or lozenge that is generally used on the top ring but taken down a hole for hunting is a WHOLE different thing to a gag with sinlgle metal link!So if people are going to use that and also work on calming/reschooling then I have to say that even I dont see a problem!lol! However,you should ALL,( especially the youngsters) work on your one rein stop,its a life saver! Still soooo impressed by Emilys attitude on here!xxx
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thelwall78
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Post by thelwall78 on Dec 28, 2007 9:36:02 GMT 1
Haven't read the whole thread but think the pm's are confrontational and trying to incite you into a row... clearly you're far too nice and polite to retaliate.
Why would someone PM on that subject - the DG is meant to be for dicsussion, if you ask me whoever it was is too cowardly to post publically as they didn't have the confidence in their opinion to be able to follow it up if a discussion ensued.
On the basis of the way people come across in their "posting personas" there are probably only a few people on here that I would hand the reins of my horse over to and trust their decisions on how to "do" her completely but I have to say Emily that you'd be one of them, so don't take those pm's to heart - chances are you're 10 times the horseman they are.
And, er well if you'd like to take my horse hunting you've only got to say and she'll be delivered to your door ;D
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Loulou
Elementary Poster
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Post by Loulou on Dec 28, 2007 9:40:11 GMT 1
I feel a right thicko asking this but what is a one rein stop?
I have asked a question in the other section about bitting because I have been having problems with my ned who is a schoolmaster/lazy/not forward going toad in a school but out on a hack he becomes an escited, fizzy, fast, leaping, bucking monster. He carted me across a field last week and it took all my energy to get him back under control and to stay on. I usually ride in a snaffle at home and a pelham with two reins when out just so that I can have some semblance of control. I am finding this thread very interesting.
Gail
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 10:23:27 GMT 1
Kanga actually had a pretty decent vid clip of a one rein stop,I will pm her and see if she can find the link again. I think its great that most people on here are prepared to have a discussion about these things and are thinking about what they are using on their horse,nothing wrong with using a pelham with 2 reins for emergency brakes imo,especially if you are reschooling too.It would be better to see the gag with 2 reins than just one on the 3rd ring,I accept that some youngsters find this awkward but its just a matter of getting the hang of it,I have done pc games on a pone with 2 reins when I was 8,so its not impossible,just a pain,but would seem better to me in the short term,and from my experience with that pone,it was 6 months before he was doing everything in a rubber snaffle.
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Post by mags on Dec 28, 2007 10:34:53 GMT 1
I would have thought it more appropriate for the person who pm'ed to have simpley started a thread to discuss the bit which would leave it open for Emily to read. So yes I thought it was rude towards someone who is clearly talented and thoughtful towards her horses
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teresa
Advanced Poster
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Post by teresa on Dec 28, 2007 10:52:30 GMT 1
Hi Emily
I do not have any knowledge of bits I am afraid, so I will not comment. But, I would like to congratulate you on how you have behaved with regard to these PMs that you have received, for what it is worth, I too think they are rude and at times inflammatory. I have seen your posts of your horses hunting and they do look nice out there cantering and jumping, well done and keep smiling ;D
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Dec 28, 2007 11:15:14 GMT 1
I am inclined to agree with Rach22uk that it is often the hands on the reins that make the difference not the bit in the horses mouth I have seen many injuries caused by bad hands with snaffles and happy mouth/rubber bits. Not saying those injuries would have been improved by using a gag but anything that makes those hands lighter may reduce the risks
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