cubic
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,286
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Post by cubic on Dec 28, 2007 0:04:56 GMT 1
SF why is you prefer a pelham with 2 reins to a bubble bit with 2 reins. Both have extremely similar actions when only ridden on the top rein, and both come in a wide variety of mouth pieces. Is it that you prefer the action of a curb chain to mouth bar/poll pressure?
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 0:06:05 GMT 1
very interesting ponypit! A bit more bit education is needed then I think! Lets get everybody off to the bit clinic thats on the demos board!lol!
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 0:10:12 GMT 1
sorry cubic,I probably wasnt clear,I dont really care if someone rides on the top ring,it becomes effectively a hanging cheek then surely? in which case I would only have the nutcracker action to object to! ( which I do! have you ever done that on your arm?ouch!) But,yes,its the bar pressure that I really dont like,personally I would never and have never used anything other than a snaffle ( or a headcollar!lol!) but if I was going to use a curb it would be a leather one anyway.
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Post by Emily+Meg on Dec 28, 2007 0:12:27 GMT 1
I feel a bit guilty as the person has read this thread and did PM to say that they wanted to keep it off the board. I just felt the tone was getting me down. I Mine are french links btw, as I dont like nutcracker action either. I have a straight bar happy mouth pelham I could try, and keep practising with 2 reins? SF, do you genuinely believe any horse can do any activity in a snaffle? or if they cant, they shouldnt do that activity? Thats not meant to sound rude, btw! I am off to bed! night all, and I expect this thread will have many interesting replies when I get up tomorrow
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Post by Emily+Meg on Dec 28, 2007 0:12:56 GMT 1
rah also I use an elastic curb chain with my pelhams. meant to add that. hugs to all
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cubic
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,286
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Post by cubic on Dec 28, 2007 0:18:29 GMT 1
sorry cubic,I probably wasnt clear,I dont really care if someone rides on the top ring,it becomes effectively a hanging cheek then surely? in which case I would only have the nutcracker action to object to! ( which I do! have you ever done that on your arm?ouch!) But,yes,its the bar pressure that I really dont like,personally I would never and have never used anything other than a snaffle ( or a headcollar!lol!) but if I was going to use a curb it would be a leather one anyway. But "snaffle" to most people simply means the arrangement on the outside of the bit - the single ring (whether egbutt, loose ring etc) rather than the mouthpiece. I've only ever used a bubble bit with a french link or lozenge mouthpiece (usually a happy mouth) - how do you know what mouthpiece is used in the horses in the photos that you've commented on recently? Yes, it does become similar to a hanging cheek. Most of the horse I have are show horses, so the last thing i want is to cause incorrect muscle development. Nearly all show horses are ridden in doubles or pelhams for competition and most develop correctly. When used properly these bits are useful and not detremental.
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Post by flyingdonkey on Dec 28, 2007 0:19:37 GMT 1
SF, do you genuinely believe any horse can do any activity in a snaffle? or if they cant, they shouldnt do that activity? Thats not meant to sound rude, btw! sorry to intrude, i know what you mean but what about the horses that dont like snaffles? and actually like the dutch gag I also think that even tho im not into strong bits sometimes especially first times a little more contol is whats needed (that doesnt mean used in a harsh way) especially when there is alot of horses event the calmest horses can get very fizzy and excted.
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Post by KoLaTo on Dec 28, 2007 0:21:52 GMT 1
SF - Tis interesting isn't it? I've spent a stoopid amount of time researching and trying bits and the Gag/Bubble whatever we like to cal it is one that really is a contradiction in actions and baffles me as to why it is marketed as a good braking aid when it isn't at all in a loose ring...... they very rarely come in a fixed ring either.....
My favourite bits at the moment are a Butterfly Pelham which is actually primarily a driving bit but superb for tiny ponies with little soft mouths and my funny black metal (which is supposed to be rusty) French Link loose ring snaffle which i am assured by my mare tastes lovely, i have tried it myself *bleuergh* but she seems to like it - LOL
Hmm, to be honest, the gag dosen't really become a hanging cheek snaffle unless it has fixed rings, sorry but the loose ring effectively still allows the bit to slide much further up and into the roof of the mouth, a hanging cheek is a fixed ring and yes it will nutcrack upwards to some extent but not as much as a loose ring as there is no movement in the sides......
A hanging cheek gives much more positive and accurate action than a loose ring of any description will give.......
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 0:24:34 GMT 1
Well you see Emily,that is because you are a thinking person that does love her horse. Yes,I do believe what I said about doing anything in a snaffle,its about training without pain,acceptable as self defense only.Tbh,I have ridden quite a few 'ruined' horses that were gadgeted up to the eyeballs,my answer was to simply take the whole lot off and ride in a headcollar,and I can honestly say that whilst they werent instantly 100% obedient none of them were any harder to control than when they had all the gadgets. I would think that there are some horses that couldnt hunt safely in a snaffle,or more often,some riders ( not a dig at anybody in particular btw)in that case no,I wouldnt do it,why have the stress/hassle? But then I am 35 and when I was in my twenties I thought differently,and for those of you with competitive ambitions it can be very difficult to stick to such principles. BTW.imo most bits make more difference to the riders than the horse ( again,not aimed at emily or anybody specific) in that they give the rider belief that they have brakes and so stop them pulling and panicking,therefore leaving the horses mouth alone unless they are giving a short aid,this is the reason why pelhams etc work so well with kids. I also think that if you need brakes then you would be far better perfecting the one rein stop,this is by far the most effective emergency brake that i have ever used and it works from a headcollar too!
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 0:31:15 GMT 1
flying donkey,why would any horse like a dutch gag? what is to like? For sure different horses like diferent mouthpieces but as cubic pointed out the term snaffle refers to the rings only.( sorry cubic,yes I was thinking of single jointed snaffles with my earlier comment) cubic,the point with the gag is simply the leverage,so yes,of course if the gag is a french link or lozenge on the top ring then thats fine! None of the horses that I have previously commented on were ridden on the top ring,they were ridden on the 3rd,I didnt pm emily dont forget!lol!
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 0:33:08 GMT 1
LOL! at ponypit! you are a bit geek! The black metal is sweet iron btw,they use it a lot in spain and apparently the horses do love it,although I agree i didnt find it overly tasty!
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Post by KoLaTo on Dec 28, 2007 0:41:56 GMT 1
*sits in corner patting own head*
I admit, i am a bit of a geek when it comes to finding out how, why and when gadgets etc work.... and bits are one of my favourite interests closely followed by nosebands, now why on earth do people bother with an extra piece of tack to clean...... personally i can't be ar*ed with them, naked is easier - LOL
I've spent so much money on finding something that my little man is happy in and suddenly the lightbulb came on! He dosen't like metal at all but luuurves latex ! Now all his bits are wrapped in latex bandage, he loves it - weirdo ponio....
The girly isn't so easy so i swap around a bit with her, her current favourite is the yuk black one closely followed by a Waterford mouthpiece, she likes a pelham as well as her mouth conformation suits it but tis very hard finding a mouthpiece thin enough for her as she only has a teeny tiny gap so Bridoon width is just right.....
God i am soooo sad......... where did i put my life, sure it was somewhere round here......
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Post by sarahfox on Dec 28, 2007 0:55:53 GMT 1
LOL!quite agree re the cleaning bit! why do you think i am a fan of loose work and riding in a headcollar only?! I think I have been fortunate in that most horse i have ridden go well with a kk ultra,makes life far simpler! We did have one awkward pone with odd mouth conformation though and he strenuously objected to everything until we found him the myler comfort,he has a thick tongue and low arch so needed a really low and wide port shape,but I wanted to keep the joint.I actually think the vast majority are fine in a lozenge snaffle,but you do come across the odd awkward one and thats when myler come into their own,it was so darned difficult before they came out!
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Post by janetgeorge on Dec 28, 2007 0:57:10 GMT 1
I feel a bit guilty as the person has read this thread and did PM to say that they wanted to keep it off the board. I just felt the tone was getting me down. Don't feel guilty! This is a discussion forum. If everyone who had an opinion PM'd people instead of posting there wouldn't be much discussion - and you could spend an awful lot of time answering PMs! I don't mind people PM'ing me for advice (strangely enough, a few do ) if it's something they don't want to discuss on the forum - but I think it's a bit of a nerve for people to PM in an almost accusatory way asking why you do something with your horses. I confess I don't like gags much - but some horses DO need a bit more by way of 'brakes' out hunting - and some horses go very kindly in a gag if their rider has decent hands. I would rather see a stronger bit used sensitively, than someone hauling away on the good old snaffle!
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Cheryl Walmsley
No Longer Posts on the DG
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Post by Cheryl Walmsley on Dec 28, 2007 1:12:14 GMT 1
I do think that congratulations are in order for Emily. She has taken all this so well I think and is able to continue an intelligent discussion when a lot of people would feel under fire. APPLAUSE!
Also, I am glad the discussion came up because I've learnt alot from it which is what the DG is for.
TBH the times I PM someone are to offer support, ask for advice on an issue I don't want to advertise or because they are a friend, or sometimes a combination of the three. For instance, I'm always pecking Janet's head!! he he. However, if you are going to take a tone with someone about such a personal issue as the care of their horses, I think it's a bit too rich to ask for it to be kept off the board. Emily has the right to raise thiis on the forum, the issue is personal to her and whilst other's may feel strongly about it, if they wish to raise it with Emily they should do so out in the open. That's what I think!!
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