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Post by Lulu on Dec 28, 2007 18:39:39 GMT 1
Now this has raised some VERY interesting points,what a great discussion! It would seem to me that the mouthpiece that is used is EXTREMELY important! ie; a gag with a happy mouth or lozenge that is generally used on the top ring but taken down a hole for hunting is a WHOLE different thing to a gag with sinlgle metal link!So if people are going to use that and also work on calming/reschooling then I have to say that even I dont see a problem!lol! However,you should ALL,( especially the youngsters) work on your one rein stop,its a life saver! Still soooo impressed by Emilys attitude on here!xxx Not easy finding gags with a straight bar, or a lozenge. Most of them are single jointed only. I want to try a double linked gag, as I think it would be a lot better than the one pony currently has ! But I do agree safety comes first (and comfort too)
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big e
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Post by big e on Dec 28, 2007 18:40:33 GMT 1
Mine are either ridden in french link sweet irons and kk's or plain snaffles, except for the new girl who i have just bought a waterford gag for, but then all mine have brakes except her although saying that i haven't actually ridden her in it yet as we are still schooling her in the field in her snaffle but it will go on next time i venture out and if shes ok, i will return to a snaffle, if not she will stay in it because i have no intention of being cantered home across roads and being jumped over anything in our path Thats if the poll pressure works of course, i won't know that until she goes out.
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cubic
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Post by cubic on Dec 28, 2007 18:45:56 GMT 1
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Post by ukshowjumper on Dec 28, 2007 18:56:25 GMT 1
Lulu....what size do you need? I have a french link for sale
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Post by Lulu on Dec 28, 2007 19:41:26 GMT 1
Lulu....what size do you need? I have a french link for sale 5inch ? (it's actually 4 3/4" he is but they don't do 1/4 sizes anymore) If not my size, Think I'll get one from saddlery shop then as got to get some new hoof boots, as Star's dropping a size atm, due to removal of flare and hoofs not as rounded now !
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Post by ukshowjumper on Dec 28, 2007 19:44:25 GMT 1
Have pm'd you
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dingbat
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Post by dingbat on Dec 28, 2007 20:14:05 GMT 1
OMG - I cannot believe posting a few pics of a day out could cause so much discussion!
I do think i'd find the PMs rude though and perhaps wouldnt have continued replying. more so because i couldnt have kept it polite!
As for bits..... personally i am not a fan of dutch gags. but i am also a believer in its also down to the hands on the other end. as well as the scholing level of the horse.
there is a horse on my yard ridden on the middle hole of one. they ride with such a strong contact and then wonder why it wont go forward! idiots. i managed subtly to persuade them when schooling to put it on the top ring. wahoo. result. but they still insist on putting it down again for hacking. cant win em all, its not my horse. but it is hard not to comment when you see the horse isnt going its best because of it.
i used to have to hack my welsh cob in a stronger bit though (kimblewick). i schooled in a snaffle. i then worked on his manners to enable me to downgrade to a snaffle. which i was then able to jump, XC etc in. but it took time with him and getting him respecting me.
i think all horses are individual. i also think some horses dont mind these bits - others detest them. so its finding what works for you. however - i'd never comment on a nice photo - picking fault with the bit. (unless rider was hauling on the mouth or horse looked upset etc). its a bit off. especially when meg has a bad knee!
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Dec 28, 2007 21:45:23 GMT 1
On the subject of testing bits on your arm.. try testing a pelham! I made my feet wear a mullen mouth pelham and tried the curb rein, was practicing using two reins, it was Not Nice! Pony was about as impressed with it. She's generally not happy in any kind of french link or lozenge, not too impressed with mullen mouth and is happier in a good old single joint nutcracker! Preferably hanging cheek. Anything with curb is instantly hated, trying a pelham resulted in flat out gallop up the road with ears up my nose and general giraffe impressions. Whether it pinches an arm when pulled against it is a bit different from how it is in a horse's mouth. I'd go with pony's opinion over whether it hurts my arm when yanked on or not
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Post by jennyb on Dec 28, 2007 22:03:42 GMT 1
Whether it pinches an arm when pulled against it is a bit different from how it is in a horse's mouth. How so? That technique was demonstrated to me by Hilary Vernon, who knows an awful lot more than I ever will about bits and bitting! Of course there will always be exceptions to any rule, but I do find on the whole that most (not all!!) horses don't get on with nutcracker action bits. Well done to you on listening to your horse though, if more people did that they might find their horses go a whole lot softer!
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Post by fin on Dec 28, 2007 22:20:51 GMT 1
I didn't feel at all happy trying to ride in a western curb, so went out of my way to find a nice sweet iron and copper peanut bit (a french link type, I suppose). Neddy was not impressed at all--much nose poking and snatching and he was totally impossible to lead in it, so after two sessions of that I went back to the dually. We've just bought him a nice sidepull too so we'll see what he thinks of that if we ever get to ride him I have absolutely no idea how to see what sort of mouth conformation suits what bit tho, so I'm probably better off bitless since I know how they work. If it turns out bitless isn't working and neddy isn't happy, then it's back to the gobful of metal for us--I'm not even going to rule out the curb, but TBH that will involve me learning how to ride properly and being able to be safe with such a contraption, not on whether neddy stops with it (he seems ok about stopping, but we've not really ever ridden him at any speed!). I don't really think I'd criticise anyone's choice of bit...certainly not insistently by PM. I don't know enough to do so. But I do find the entire bit discussion interesting
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Post by sunnylynn11 on Dec 28, 2007 22:21:12 GMT 1
I havent read replies, so dont know what others have said, but at the end of the day, it is your choice what to use on your horses . Its not what bit you have, its how you use it!, you could have a nice soft happy mouth snaffle but if all you ever do is yank your pony in the mouth, then it no longer becomes a "kind" bit. Perhaps the said "pm'er" would like to take Meg out hunting next time in her snaffle and see what control she has . This is a discussion group and everyone is entitled to their opinion but I do a get a bit cross when people seems to over-interfere!. Emily, people only have to see what a fantastic job you done on little Willow to see that you are knowlegable, experienced, caring and look after your horses very well. Dont take it to heart hun
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Post by Yann on Dec 28, 2007 22:59:32 GMT 1
Was that with a metal curb chain by any chance? Elastic ones are much more comfortable and polite
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Dec 28, 2007 23:00:06 GMT 1
Looking at shape of my arm compared to shape of a horses's mouth I'm hoping that most people aren't pulling hard enough on a bit that its at the angle it is against my arm. I actually can't see how the rings of a correctly fitted bit could get as close together when in the horse's mouth as they need to get to squish my arm and really hurt. I've just been playing with a 'nutcracker' type snaffle and a similar thickness lozenge one on my arm and the single joint isn't much worse.. The arm test also doesn't show that a bit can hit the roof of the mouth, which for some horses can be the nastiest thing about a single joint. Its fine as a 'don't pull on the reins, this is what it feels like' demo, but I'm really not convinced its a good way of testing if bits are 'nasty' or 'nice'. Most of the time when I've seen the arm thing its done as a demonstration of how snaffles are evil and Wonder Bit is sooo much better for your horse so that's made me a bit sceptical
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Post by fin on Dec 28, 2007 23:02:56 GMT 1
Using a dually on my arm with an over-enthusiastic boy on the other end put me on the floor! It's never had that effect on a 500kg QH tho I'm bviously a feeble wimp
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Dec 28, 2007 23:08:51 GMT 1
It was a metal one, but quite loosely fitted and the giraffe impressions started before the curb was really doing anything much so never got around to trying an elastic one. Gave up on the pelham and attempts at installing brakes via bits since I discovered bad language and the peed off mummy voice is much better brakes on her than any bit anyway ;D Pony now just has a hanging cheek JP snaffle because that's what she's happiest in of the load of bits I've tried, even if she does occasionally ignore it and need swearing at
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