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Post by scaredycat on Dec 18, 2005 13:34:34 GMT 1
I think its just that we've become more prepared to admit it now. With forums such as this being easily accessible and lots of friendly people who don't make you feel bad or stupid for having a problem, us nervous nellies are coming out of the woodwork.
I think more courses and more instructors who are able to cater for nervous riders would be a great idea.
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plusrider
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Post by plusrider on Dec 18, 2005 13:39:32 GMT 1
love the euphemism "passing the buck" She clearly loves him, your not passing the buck your allowing her to have more input and more time for a horse she is clearly fond of. Sounds like you have a one in a million sharer. Have you tried ground riding with him? If your tall enough that is, I found it great when trying to teach Nell to ride in a halter. Although my arms felt like they were going to fall off for about a week after. For what it is worth I think you are doing all the right things, maybe you could have an understanding instructor give you a lesson with him or even ask someone to video you with him so that you can see for yourself what goes on, it is much harder to know what it is when your more worried about hitting the ground that noticing the twig which broke two fields away To answer Jill I think riders are much more "switched on" instead of simply selling on problem horses we try much harder to sort them out these days. Look at the list of things Cowedly Custard has done, back, teeth, bridle, saddle. I can remember horses being changed like under wear when I was younger, not having any real chance to settle. I think Cowedly is doing all she can to make her horse comfortable and get things right for him, I think we are mush more aware these days, and also don't forget we have the WWW so we can talk to larger groups of people about things so we hear much more than we used to back in the age of pen and phone ;D
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plusrider
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Post by plusrider on Dec 18, 2005 13:45:58 GMT 1
and dont forget
"Courage does not always roar; sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day that says "I will try again TOMORROW"
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Post by Louise C on Dec 18, 2005 13:47:28 GMT 1
Did he have a problem with his mouth/bridle with the previous owners? It's just such a minefield.
I had a pony to start when I was 20, he was a nervous wreck and had lived with the same person for his early years and only handled by her until she got someone to back him. Understandably, he went bananas and actually collapsed behind. He didn't have the greatest conformation, but I think he was just so terrified his hind legs went from underneath. He was just left after that till I took him on, I think a lot of that type of thing went on, there was more land and less equines to go round so more space available to do that.
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Post by Casper on Dec 18, 2005 13:58:01 GMT 1
Oh this is a difficult one OP. If we start off from the premise that having horses should be fun, then maybe you would do best by selling this horse and finding something more suited to you. BUT they have this way of getting under your skin, don't they! When things were really not working out between Bobby and I, I was considering putting him on loan to somebody more experienced than myself and having something safer on loan for me. He was also going to have to stay at the same yard as me etc etc as he had had such a lot of change in his short life I didn't want him moved again. Then it got me thinking - hang on a minute, I don't want anybody else having my horse. He is my dream boy and I couldn't bear seeing him with anybody else. So first and foremost you have to think really long and hard about whether you truly do want to work through the issues, or whether you would heave a sigh of relief to have a more sensible horse to work with. And there would be no shame in that, not at all. Then you have to have a plan.
I suspect, that just like me with Bobby, it may well be you who is tense and this is making your horse tense and nervous too. My problem was that I didn't believe I was a good enough rider, having returned to riding after a 17 year break and suffered from such low confidence it was unreal. Actually my riding is fine, it is what is going in my head that is the problem! So what helped Bobby and I:
1. I was lucky enough to be able to ride a friend's schoolmistress this summer. This gave me such enormous confidence, which I was then able to take to Bobby.
2. Even recognising that you are tense/nervous is a great place to start. Admitting this is difficult.
3. Remember to BREATHE!!! Sounds silly, but I used to be so tense I would hold my breath, be very tense, feel sick to the bottom of my stomach etc. No wonder Bobby was spooky bless him - he must have felt he had a tense tiger on his back the way I was.
4. Let someone else take the "What If" Championship Title. This was mine until this year. Spent so long thinking what if he spooks at the cows, what if he spooks when that bird sings, what if a tractor comes along etc etc that I was teaching him to spook! He was definitely picking up on my tenseness and it was making him jumpy. He spooked at something the other day and I actually laughed! Never thought I would see the day.
5. Recognise that horse's only want to survive, they don't want to give you a bad ride, pee you off or whatever. Your horse is telling you something is wrong, and you are a kind caring enough owner to be listening to that, hence you being on here.
6. I was fortunate enough to see Jill and her horse Caspar at Mark Rashid's Clinic in Solihull - and for someone who says she is nervous I have to say wow, you should have seen her - she didn't come across that way at all. In fact I would have said she was confident - and guess what, Caspar handled things on the second day of the clinic I never thought possible. (On the first day this was a horse who almost seemed scared to be alive). So a positive, calm manner is always going to help.
Sorry for the long reply, just trying to help and also be honest with you about some of my own issues. Bobby and I are not out of the woods yet, far from it, but I KNOW now that it was me making him that way. It has been an amazing journey, I have learnt so very much about myself as well as about Bobby and finally I am enjoying my riding again. But it took a lot of work, some days riding when everything said "no, no, no", even at times had my husband leading me out on him - but I didn't care about that, as long as it got the job done.
Good luck with whatever you decide. There are so many of us who know how you feel and sympathise. Try not to get too down about it, whatever is meant to be will be - you will know ultimately what is the right or wrong thing to do. Feel free to PM me any time ScaredyCat if I can help in any way.
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Post by wildrover on Dec 18, 2005 14:14:46 GMT 1
hmmm - I was a bit slow there on the 'passing the buck' ...hehehe nice one
Gotta say scaredy, you sure do sound like someone who wants to do the right thing. I think a plus and a minus of these forums is that you get so many answers, the confusion grows rather than diminishes. If horse is doing reasonably ok with your sharer and not you, then as you say, maybe its your lack of confidence thats the majority of the problem. On the other hand, it is a hobby, expensive one, and is meant to bring joy and happiness doing the thing you love.
I dont have your answer - and I certainly would not make a diagnosis of a horse from a description on a forum even if I were a professional handler. It does sound like you have a good sharer and an opportunity to work on this problem. Why not set some target dates, work with sharer and an RA - you aint gonna turn this one around overnight. However, by taking it slow and easy, working to a programme with professional help, you can monitor progress and, after a time, make a decision.
In the meantime, you aint gonna get your confidence back on this horse - you might spend a lot of time on a riding school horse just reacquainting yourself with confident riding.
I might also suggest you change your nickname - calling yourself scaredycat and telling yourself you are scared is gonna make your hill more steep .....
Finally, which ever route you take eventually, I really do believe you will be doing the right thing for that horse.....
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natalia
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Post by natalia on Dec 18, 2005 14:21:21 GMT 1
hi,
Just a few thoughts to add. In his previous home, your horse ahd a set routine, some horses, esp TB types who are used to having this routine, don' like the change and remain esentially high maintanience animals. Maybe he's unsettled in his field and this behaviour is an outlet. I know many TB types who are quick thinkers, and don't like disruptions to their routines. It is likely that even though he was just lightly ridden before, he had set times to be ridden. Being also fairly new to you, its ikely that he hasn't had time to adjust. Many horses, esp sporty types, do use their brains and see what they can get away with with new owners in the first few months. Clicking with a horse isn't always automatic. It took me a good 6 motnhs to get to grips with my horse when I got him, 5 years on, I still have him and he tries his best for me always. He also did this sort of behavior, ie, napping, bolting, broncing. His fave thing to do was to gallop round and round the school as soon as I mounted and try and throw me over the fence by braking suddenly in to it! but once in a routine and realising that he couldn't win this way, he decided that working with me was far better and gave up being a sod. If you sharer is happy to ride him then I say let her, she obviousl has the nerve to help work him through this. He is probably picking up subtle signals as soonas you geton that your slightly nervous, and playing to these. I do think you should maybe also lunge n tack before you mount, as it will take out the initial spark. Some top horses are still lunged before ridden work, purely due to that inner fire! Work in a setr outine, do lots of groundwork, keep his attention and vary what you do. Sporty types get bored quickly, if you can hack with one other even i walk then go for it. When my horse used to have a complete paddy at leaving the gate to hack out, I used to lead him up the road for a short while and turn back when he was good. (he would rear, buck and bolt for home, ometimes as we were crossing the road so not pleasent) . He eventually get the messag and
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natalia
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Post by natalia on Dec 18, 2005 14:25:31 GMT 1
is now 100% to hack, hasn't even tried to nap for about 3 years. If you are to sell him, at hs current state of mind, he won't fetch more than 1k. S yr prob better off working him through this and trying to crack it. Alot f people don't like TB types anyway so he has this against him too. I wouldn't send him away either to be schooled, as he needs routine and this will upset him further. Get someone out to help you if you can, its amazing what a god instructor can help with. Also make sure his teeth, tack etc are all in good condition and get his back done if you think this could be part of the problem. More work may be meaning to him more pain, and so get it checked before you class him as just naughty.
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Post by jes on Dec 18, 2005 14:57:03 GMT 1
OP - just wanted to say that I can empathise with you here. My horse is very nappy & traffic shy, a complete opposite to my previous horse who would go anywhere & do anything, so it came as a bit of a shock to me.
I've lost my nerve with him a couple of times and have got extremely upset on numerous occasions. I decided to sell him after 1 year and got in touch with Sarah Dent (RA) to see if she could take him for a couple of weeks to do work with him on his nappiness, traffic fears and loading fears before selling him. The very next day I went out on a hack and he was as good as gold!! I think this was because I'd made a decision and had started to think of him as not my horse any more, so I subconsciously relaxed and had an 'I don't care what you do' attitude. As a result he was perfect!
My YO had also offered to buy him from me to use in her riding school and after careful consideration I realised I would hate the fact that I would see him there, but he wouldn't be mine any more. Needless to say i didn't sell him, instead I decided to just do whatever i felt up to doing with him. If i didn't want to ride him I didn't, i took him for a walk instead or did some ground work in the school. I refused to feel pressured into riding him and I gradually got my confidence back with him.
He is still very nappy and still traffic shy, but is miles better than he used to be because he is very settled at the yard.
One thing i would say is, if you decide to keep your horse and to work through his problems and your confidence levels, then just take small steps at a time. Have small goals and make them SMART - Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Timely, and just increase these slowly. This will build your confidence up as you'll be achieving your aims. E.g. it could be as small as mounting your horse and walking once round the school without incident.
Good luck with whatever you decide and make sure you keep us updated.
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Post by scaredycat on Dec 18, 2005 20:01:05 GMT 1
I'm overwhelmed by the responses received from this site. It's been great, really given me things to think about. Thank you all. I'm going to print out these replies as they will be so good to look back on if I'm feeling a bit down about it all.
I went down to see him earlier on today and he looked at me with his big brown eyes that always seem to have a worried look about them. I felt so sad. I know that if I sell him I wouldn't get back what I paid for him. To be honest, although I would be making a loss, I would be looking for a good home rather than money.
I haven't decided what to do do with him, but I'm not going to rush into any rash decisions. I spent some time grooming him and talking to him today and felt much happier with him. I think as you say Jes, I was less worried because sub-conciously I was thinking "I may not have him this time next year." I'm going to try my hardest to work through things with him as it is the least he deserves. I'm not saying that I'm not going to sell him, as I may find that I have to. But I'm not going to do it right now.
When I bought him, he was showing signs of disliking his bit. I got the dentist out who removed some sharp edges on his teeth. I thought this might help but didn't make much of a difference. I tried thinner bits, thicker bits, single jointed, double jointed. He does seem to be much happier with his bitless - no mouth opening, no head tossing he'll actually stop as soon as you ask instead of fighting you.
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plusrider
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Post by plusrider on Dec 18, 2005 23:01:08 GMT 1
I wonder if he has been fighting his bit if he might benefit from some equine touch or similar massage from his poll down his neck? If you imagine he was resisting the bit and also tossing his head then he might well be uncomfortable, pair this with him saying, oh mum is getting on and I know she is a little worried, so he gets tense, the tension then makes old aches more achy and then you have an uncomfortable horse?
Just a thought, well just ANOTHER thought. LOL bet your head is spinning exorcist stylie ;D
One thing is for sure, your doing your best for him by thinking long and hard so he is a lucky boy to have such a great mum and if you decide to sell him I am sure you will look for a mum who will look out for him just the way you do.
T X
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Persianhorse
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 20, 2005 2:02:50 GMT 1
I tried so many times to send a message but there is something wrong with the site!!!
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Persianhorse
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 20, 2005 2:20:50 GMT 1
There is somthing wrong with the site.
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Post by holi on Dec 20, 2005 10:33:41 GMT 1
I am so sorry to hear this as I had exactly the same a few years ago and quite honestly it finished me off horses for quite a time. I bought a classic 'quiet horse - a confidence giver' who was excellent when I tried him but was a nightmare when he got home. However he was like it with everyone so loads of people agreed with me, even the vet said it wasn't the quiet 'dobbin' he had vetted as he wouldn't have recommended buying him. I can only think he was depressed when I tried him (even my trainer is at a total loss and we had blood tests - negative) and the dealer who sold him sold me a pup (as they say). He was a lovely boy but so uptight, even my totally laid back partner said he was very sharp. Can you check with the people who sold him? I found my horse's first owner who said he was very anxious nervy type and should never have been sold as a confidence giver. If that is the case then it can help you decide what to do - I sold my boy - honestly - and there are plenty of people who like that sort of ride.
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lizzieb
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Post by lizzieb on Dec 20, 2005 11:34:06 GMT 1
Here Here Jill,
Gosh whilst reading this I am feeling all the emotions that you must be going through. You are in no doubt alone, I have had my horse since he was weaned and we have a strong bond but I JUST CANT RIDE HIM!. He will do everything else I ask of him but when it comes to ridden work he persists in shattering my confidence the minute I think I am getting brave again.
The whole do I keep going or do I sell issue is a tough call. I broke last summer and advertised Dan for sale thinking I was offering a better life for him with someone who could manage him but I couldn't go through with it.
I now have a horse that I have a fall from every 1 in 4 rides.
My only suggestion is ask for help but choose your help wisely. I cannot emphasise this enough (this is a huge decision especially if your confidence is low)
Best of Luck whichever path you take
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