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Post by bizcitmcgraw on Dec 18, 2005 2:47:23 GMT 1
You may call yourself a 'scaredy cat' but its your unconsious brain's way of keeping you safe, so don't disregared it.
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Post by mudlark on Dec 18, 2005 10:23:32 GMT 1
I agree with Lynn that this may not be just a 'riding' problem and there maybe something else that's unsettled your horse. He's out 24/7 - is he being bullied in the field for instance? If he's looking for some emotional backup (if you can call it that with horses) that could be why he goes better for your more confident sharer? Can you talk to the previous owner and see if he has any history of nappy behaviour, and if so whether they managed to work out why it occurred? If it was my horse I would probably turn him away for the rest of the winter and see if he settles better (maybe move him to a different field if that's possible) and start again in spring with a clean slate, working very gently and gradually. If he's no better and you're still truly scared of him, I think I'd sell him (being totally honest with any prospective buyer of course). You wanted a pleasure horse, not a 'project' , right? Best of luck whatever you decide.
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Post by jill on Dec 18, 2005 10:55:30 GMT 1
Scaredycat I can so identify with you, and with Liz - my horse is unsaleable so if I don't do things with him he'll either be retired (at the age of 8!!) or pts - the former because I am lucky enough to own my own land. But it bothered me that I couldn't find a key to him after all my years with horses - admitting my own shortcomings was a big hurdle. But I found my answer in Mark Rashid and Kathleen, who between them not only put a finger on the main part of his problem but also helped me develop a plan of what to do if it all starts to go wrong. That is the key to confidence - knowing what you will do if your horse gets stronger and stronger, starts to misbehave etc, and it varies depending on your circumstances and you and your horse. Mark and Kathleen don't come over that often, so maybe an RA can help you do that once they have assessed your relationship?
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Post by Liz on Dec 18, 2005 11:45:02 GMT 1
Carrying on from my previous post, I think I ought to make it absolutely clear that my horse is now the safe, gentle, reliable chap I expected him to be. He has never been nappy, thank heavens, but was just getting in a bit of a tizz, barging and generally behaving like a worried and upset horse. He is now just wonderful and gives a good ride to both total novices and experienced riders. I really hope the OP has the same success. I do recommend that some help from an RA or similar may be an ideal first step. Fortunately, I had the experience and some excellent help from friends to sort out my horse's problems reasonably quickly. My only problem now is starting riding again once the surgeon says I can - stopping at this stage in my regaining confidence is the last thing I needed! However, I have no problem with handling him on the ground though after Monday (second minor eye op) I will not be able to do that for a month or so
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Post by jacqszoo on Dec 18, 2005 11:45:37 GMT 1
I so know where you coming from OP. I bought a very nervous 17hh 4 yr old mare 2 years ago in March. For the first 18 months everything went well. We built up a good bond, I spent hours working with her on the ground and she really was a nervous wreck. We hacked out in company and everything went really well. She bucked me off last boxing day but it was a one off at the time (another horse spooked behind her). I even took her on a fun ride. And from there thins started to go wrong. She was always fine to hack out - a bit excited in the first few mintes but always settled well. It was in the school that we had the problem. She would become so tense and work herself into a real sweat. She was very sharp mare and after about 8 falls in the space of 2 months I was beginning to become a wreck myself. She also learnt how to buck me off. I had regular lessons and my instructor would often spend an hour riding her to calm her and settle her. Sometimes it would take 2/3 days of regular riding by my instructor to settle her down, this was usually after an incident. I went all the usual routes, teeth, back, feed, saddle we even had Reiki. I never did get to the bottom of her problem. All I can think was she was obviously much fitter in the last few months and this caused our problems. In the end I was not enjoying her, I was terified every time I got on her.
I made the hardest decsion and I hope I never have to again. I sold her. It broke my heart. Shes been in her new home now 2 months - and they are having exactly the same problems (they did know what she was like when the bought her) she threw everyone that tried her. It really was horrendous. I beleive her new owner is sending her away somewhere for a couple of weeks, something I considered doing myself but at the end of the day I Knew she had battered my confidence so much I dont think I would ever have felt relaxed on her which just caused that old circle!
Four weeks ago I found Gerogie. A 5 yr old 16hh ISH. He failed the vet (he has a cataract) and was pretty poor. But what an absolute darling. He is a dream to handle. Loves a fuss. And from the moment I saw him I was in love. I can honestly say in all the years I have owned horses I have never felt such a bond with a horse so quick. Hes put a smile back on my face. Even though I am still having problems getting a saddle to fit him (he has huge shoulders) I wouldnt go back. My nerves havent disappeared yet - when out on hack if something happens that would have set my mare off I can feel the panic rising. I'm still a little nervous in the school but we are getting there - he looks after me. He has his moments - he can be a bit spooky on his bad eye side but he doesnt take advantage like my mare did. I am totally besotted.
Best thing I ever did looking back. It broke my heart at the time. I still look at pictures of her and think what if? But even the professionals find her hard and I think it will be a long hard road before shes right - if she ever gets right - she may turn out to be only suitable for hacking who knows. I found her a lovely home. She left me far better than she came to me (beleive it or not - she really was that bad).
We do this for fun and when it stops being fun why do we continue to beat ourselves up over it? Your horse sounds like he isnt the one for you - but would be somone elses dream horse. Owning is an expensive hobby - there is no other hobby that I can think of that if you didnt enjoy doing it that you would carry on regardless?
Life is too short. Do what YOU feel is right. Do not be persuaded or pushed by anyone else. And remember this is supposed to be fun!
Good luck with whatever you decide. And keep us all updated.
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Post by scaredycat on Dec 18, 2005 11:47:22 GMT 1
Thanks everyone. I've been looking at his lifestyle and management and can't see if there is anything contributing - but an objective point of view would be great.
He's out 24/7 in a 10acre field with ample grazing. His field companions are another large gelding (who seems to be bottom of the 'pecking order') and a small pony. I've spent time out in the field watching how they all interact and I can see no evidence of bullying - at least when I'm there. He's recently moved to this field from somewhere which wasn't quite as good and he was very unhappy there. He doesn't get any hard food at the moment as they grass is plentiful and for the amount of work he's doing is more than enough. He does seem much more relaxed in this new place, but as I mentioned in my previous post he's never bucked with me before.
I have spoken to his previous owners and they say that he's never exhibited any of this behaviour before (which makes me feel really bad as its come on since he's been with me).
I would consider myself a fairly experienced rider - I've ridden my fair share of plodders and nutcases. I used to team chase, hunt, do cross country and up until I had problems with this horse would regularly ride out with my friend on one of her TB's and hack out for hours and have a number of good canters and gallops. The thought of doing that petrifies me now! (the tanking off episode didn't help with that one).
I know that my nerves are really not helping matters. I've tried rescue remedy which helps a little. I'm happy to admit my own shortcomings and maybe I'm just not the right partner for this horse?
It is true, I did want a pleasure horse that I could have fun with and try new things. I don't mind having to work through the odd issue, but he has turned into a 'project'. I've read Mark Rashids books and he is very good. I've put some of his teachings into practice and can't wait until he's over in the UK again as I missed his last demo's.
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Post by mandal on Dec 18, 2005 12:17:39 GMT 1
Feel for you. I agree with jonswager you have to decide what you really want to do. Getting an RA out might help find the 'real' issues and the depth of the problem,which may help in your decision. It's hard to think clearly when your under pressure.Try not to be pushed into a position you are really not happy with.
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Post by marigold on Dec 18, 2005 12:39:28 GMT 1
Just wanted to sympathise with you, can't rreally offer any practical advice as I'm in the same boat as you. What others have said sound really helpful though. Lynn is it possible to post the article somewhere on the website, it sounds like something a few of us would love to read.... Good luck
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milo
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Post by milo on Dec 18, 2005 12:41:53 GMT 1
you might find until you get some confidence its best not to ride him, have some one ride him for you, while you watch and see how it goes, if your nervous he'll know it, just work with him on the ground getting to know each other and his ways, if hes too much of a horse for you, then how about finding a steady horse that suits you, my cob is big but safe and sane and he can be ridden anywere without the fear of him bolting or taking off but it did take me a long time to find this out and its taken a good year for him to settle and me to accept and understand him, he might be strong but i found out hes got good brakes after a trial with different bits etc and lots of work, so it does take time and patience and the more you get to know him the more you'll like him, but if you dont want to work through it then i suggest finding him a good home and finding a more sedate horse.
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Post by scaredycat on Dec 18, 2005 12:51:07 GMT 1
It's not that I just want to give up on him or don't want to work through his problems, I'm just not sure that I can - with my nerves as they are at the moment.
I feel so guilty about even considering selling him, like I'm letting him down and taking the easy way out. It's really heartbreaking trying to work out what is for the best. I want him to be happy and have a good life.
I love him to bits and he's a great horse to work with on the ground. But everytime I think about him my heart leaps up into my throat and starts beating at 100miles an hour and I feel sick. The poor thing is probably thinking "Oh God! There must be serious danger if she's so nervous"
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Post by Louise C on Dec 18, 2005 13:04:24 GMT 1
Hi scaredycat - just another thought - maybe his saddle fit is bothering him, if he's never bucked before with you? Or back? Is your sharer lighter than you so it wouldn't bother him so much if she were riding - no offence, just trying to think of reasons:-)
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Post by scaredycat on Dec 18, 2005 13:06:57 GMT 1
Hi Louise. I have recently had his saddle fit and back checked and was told its all ok. If it continues I will get a second opinion. My sharer is heavier than me as I initially thought it was something to do with weight/rider.
It was the first time he was ridden in his bitless bridle. Do you think that would have anything to do with it?
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plusrider
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Post by plusrider on Dec 18, 2005 13:08:04 GMT 1
Hi Scardey Cat I am a big baby so I can understand where your coming form completely, a horse I owned for 7 years turned me from a "I will try anything once" into a "oh I don't think I can, are you sure it is safe" type of rider. I can't help thinking there is more to this than a simple case of nerves. I am sure there is something which you do or do not do that is different from your sharer. Can I ask a few questions? Please feel free to not answer them on here, but maybe you can think them through in your own mind and it might help. Ok so first of all an observation and the most obvious thing, your nervous, your horse knows this as he can feel the nerves so you might be making him lose confidence in your ability to work as a team. I am sure you have gone over this thousands of times in your head. I think although this is a possibility from what you have said that it isn't what is happening, normally a horse would try to seek some kind of assurance and not just explode into behavior, so stop beating yourself up In What ways are you different from your sharer? Taller? Heavier? Lighter? How do you mount? From a block? from the ground (you must have long legs to do this on a 16.3hh ;D ) How does your sharer mount? Is it possible she has smaller feet or uses a different method of mounting and you are catching your boy in the ribs when you mount causing him to react or be put into a negative frame of mind? Could it be that your saddle although it fits the horse and your sharer is too small for your bum, your weight might them press down on the cantle making it uncomfortable for your horse. If the saddle is too big for you it might feel to your horse that your not stable in the saddle or you sit too far back/forward in it causing yourself to be unbalanced, therefor making you both feel uneasy? Did the person who checked the horse and saddle check you in it to make sure it fit you too? I would stick to working in bridles and bits that your horse is comfortable in for now, don't change to much to soon and try an isolate the problem before changing things. Maybe you could have a few lessons on a horse who you feel safe and confident with to help regain your nerve, but above all DONT beat yourself up, it took me 7 years to come to terms with the fact that Bob and I were not the right rider and horse combination. If you feel that you are not right for you boy and that selling him on is the best thing for you both then your not doing him an injustice, you would however be doing yourself and injustice to hang on to him if he isn't the one for you. I hope you understand what I am trying to say, I don't want to make you feel any worse than you already do, it takes more guts to admit your the wrong combination than it does to waste 7 years and thousands of pounds on trying to fix a problem which exists in your sub-conscious. Good luck and I hope you find the answer and begin to enjoy nice hacks with your dream horse. Tracy XX
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Post by scaredycat on Dec 18, 2005 13:27:33 GMT 1
Hi Tracy. I'll try and answer your questions - having an objective view point does really help.
I'm taller than my sharer and lighter. We both always mount from a block, not only because I can't quite mount him from the ground but also because I don't like to have a lot of pulling and pressure put on his back and saddle. I try very hard to ensure that my toes don't dig into his ribs when I mount, plus I always try to put my bum in the saddle lightly. It wasn't quite as graceful as it should have been when I first got on him yesterday as he spun round and shot over to one corner of the school. I have been told that the saddle is the correct fit for my bum as well as my horse. Like I said in response to Louise C, if it continues I'll get a sceond opinion. I have no reason to doubt my saddler or back specialist, but it'll just my mind at ease. i changed his bridle to a bitless as he was not happy with a bit. He would throw his head around, raise his head up when you went to put thr bridle on, evade the bit. I had his teeth checked and tried a couple of other bits - happy mouth, mullen mouth, staight bar - before trying a bitless. He did seem a lot happier in that when he did work yesterday. He was working in a nice outline, not fussing or worrying with the bit. Obviously there is something else that seems to be contributing to this behaviour. I've been having some lessons on a school horse and my nerves are not as crippling - I'll quite happily canter, jump etc.
I had contemplated getting a confidence giver on loan as my sharer expressed an interest in buying my horse, but does not have the money to buy. I just feel guilty about asking her if she wants to take him on full loan, almost as if I'm passing the buck onto someone else.
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Post by jill on Dec 18, 2005 13:29:41 GMT 1
From reading all of the above, it has just struck me how many people there are out there who love horses to bits but have a confidence problem with the one they've got right now. Is this a recent problem - I don't remember this being an issue years ago, or is it just that we are more prepared to admit it now? Or is it that there are so many more horses and riders around? It clearly is a fairly widespread problem, should we be thinking what can be done in general terms? More easily accessible RA's? More yards where there is a resident instructor? More courses?
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