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Post by mandal on Jan 13, 2013 13:02:01 GMT 1
Thanks for that SS3. Another general point I have been thinking about is breeding. An un managed mixed herd in a field and being left to get on with it isn't my idea of breeding.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2013 13:19:53 GMT 1
I have noticed that breeding can sometimes be an indicator of mental health issues.
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Post by jackiedo on Jan 13, 2013 13:32:46 GMT 1
Christine if I had been in my right mind I would not have had any children.... I think they mean excessive breeding. I have seen it a lot with cats
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Post by Catrin on Jan 13, 2013 14:21:34 GMT 1
If we have a choice to make, based on hearsay, is it better to show compassion for someone and try to help them, or show condemnation and pass by? I know which I intend to do.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Jan 13, 2013 14:32:36 GMT 1
I have been thinking about this. In my life I have known several well known breeders who have carried on breeding horses and ponies far, far, too late in life. Some of these ended up in trouble because they were too old or too ill to cope,and no longer able to pay for help, but couldn't bear to give up their horses despite the fact that they became unable to look after them properly,------------breeding good horses was "what they did and what they'd always done " and yes, you could say that they had, or at least ended up having some form of mental illness if only depression, which is in itself a mental problem. I believe they were unable, for what ever reason, to admit it to themselves or do anything about it, until it was too late and ponies suffered. One was an eminent Judge and mother of a high profile rider who represented Great Britain, whom, I hasten to add did not realise anything was amiss as the ponies kept at home looked ok. Even after she was prosecuted and her ponies were taken, she still expected to carry on judging . At the time we were all horrified and disgusted by this, but of course, she must have been suffering from a mental illness and just trying to carry on her life as if nothing had happened by blotting everything out. Thinking about it now, her friends and the horse world in general, shunned her, when she probably most needed compassion. I did not really want to give up breeding, but realised that with my arthritis I could no longer care for my horses in the way I was used to, so I stopped. Thank God I did because this Christmas I had Flu for the first time in my life, and I could have no more have looked after my mares than fly to the moon. When you consider this man, it appears that he is another who has had a brilliant life with horses and bred some of the best ( you don't win the Royal Welsh with just anything) , but possibly due to the loss of his daughter, just didn't know when or how to stop. It's a difficult one.
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Post by mandal on Jan 13, 2013 14:52:46 GMT 1
Yes it is. Compassion can be about helping someone realize they are causing/allowing distress to an animal or human and helping them cope with that change and loss of their loved ones. However, the severity of any neglect and or suffering of those loved ones must be taken into account. If the person is unable to see or refuses to accept they can no longer cope then my new belief is they should be forced once the neglect and suffering of others in their care becomes severe. Supporting addicts (if that is an issue) isn't always helpful as it just enables them to continue in their long held mindset and stops them moving forward and making constructive changes. There is also the fear of change factor. Loosing something that defines you or your life is scary but we all have to adjust to these experiences at some point in our lives. I also wonder if, once a severe decision is made for someone, there may actually be a sense of relief in some cases. ps. We are talking about a carer here, not someone in a personal decline that affects only themselves. There is a suffering and completely dependent other party here.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Jan 13, 2013 14:57:02 GMT 1
There is also the fear of change factor. Loosing something that defines you or your life is scary but we all have to adjust to these experiences at some point in our lives. That was so true in my case Mandal
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Post by mandal on Jan 13, 2013 15:03:15 GMT 1
There is also the fear of change factor. Loosing something that defines you or your life is scary but we all have to adjust to these experiences at some point in our lives. That was so true in my case Mandal I admire you very much for making the choice you did. These discussions and stories have certainly given me a jolt about my declining capabilities as I have been struggling at times physically myself over recent months. Lots of thinking to do.
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Post by Catrin on Jan 13, 2013 15:41:17 GMT 1
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Post by Ally S on Jan 13, 2013 17:00:50 GMT 1
The truth will come out in the end. At the moment we only have our own perceptions of the program to go on, and the allegations and photos posted since which as yet we're not certain are true. I notice he now has a Twitter account though which he is using to attack the RSPCA. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but we know he has convictions for causing unnecessary suffering to animals. Personally I struggle to see him as a poor old chap who has lost his way. He's certainly got to grips with social media quick enough. I'll be interested to see how this develops, but I can't help but feel he's a lot smarter and more manipulative than we realise. Whatever the case, my concern is for the horses who have no say in this all.
Thanks Catrin by the way for the advice on quoting! Much appreciated.
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Post by Catrin on Jan 13, 2013 17:59:54 GMT 1
…Personally I struggle to see him as a poor old chap who has lost his way. He's certainly got to grips with social media quick enough. I'll be interested to see how this develops, but I can't help but feel he's a lot smarter and more manipulative than we realise. Whatever the case, my concern is for the horses who have no say in this all. He doesn't have mains electricity, though he does have a generator, he certainly doesn't have a phone and computer. If 'he' has a Twitter account, 'he' will be Michelle Crowther. Croeso — you're welcome.
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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 13, 2013 18:06:46 GMT 1
An IH student works for the RSPCA and let me know the following. Please understand this was a completely unofficial letter which the student in question has given me permission to reveal without the name of the writer. Hi kelly. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to tell u about the prosecution or release photos as i believe it is still in process. I can tell u that the horses seized were in a terrible state, the black pony in the documentary had such a high worm burden it was projectile scouring so it was extremely dehydrated, it was so infested with lice that it was suffering with anemia and it had very overgrown feet. The other 4 were suffering with the same problems with a couple also being very emaciated which then obviously leads to all sorts of problems. The RSPCA will only remove animals in extreme cases and will in fact try to educate owners. The horses shown in the documentary were not bad enough to seize but obviously there were some welfare issues with feet, lice and worms. It stated in the documentary that Clwyd has six months to further reduce his numbers and resolve any welfare issues before any action is taken, which I think is fair. I also see that a lot of people were not happy with the way the black pony was herded and loaded. Firstly i must point out that it was not darted with an immobilising drug but with a normal sedative and as a IH student myself I do agree that a round pen, more man power and the help of an RA would of been a lot less stressful for the pony but I do believe they did the best they could with the knowledge and tools they had. Hopefully i have given u some helpful information and the RSPCA's view on IH is slowly moving in the right direction and in fact after i attended the untouched course and after having John Jones in to work with a pony the methods r now used by all staff when handling the wild ones. we now have a handy stick, use pressure and release, body language and even use the roping technique when catching the really wild ones. This is a great success!!! oh and not to forget the pony we brought to monty's demo last year. None of these things would ever of been considered a few years ago.
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Post by Ally S on Jan 13, 2013 18:22:55 GMT 1
…Personally I struggle to see him as a poor old chap who has lost his way. He's certainly got to grips with social media quick enough. I'll be interested to see how this develops, but I can't help but feel he's a lot smarter and more manipulative than we realise. Whatever the case, my concern is for the horses who have no say in this all. He doesn't have mains electricity, though he does have a generator, he certainly doesn't have a phone and computer. If 'he' has a Twitter account, 'he' will be Michelle Crowther. Croeso — you're welcome. I think my main feeling is we should be waiting for facts and not assuming anything. Sorry Catrin, but we have no idea if he has a phone or not!
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Post by mandal on Jan 13, 2013 18:29:50 GMT 1
Surely a twitter account could be anyone.
Can you join twitter via computer then? I thought it had to be via mobile phone I'm such a tech numpty. ;D
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Post by shan on Jan 13, 2013 19:01:28 GMT 1
No matter what the circumstances, anyone who has made a lifetime's work or hobby out of rearing and keeping horses will know they have to be checked, wormed, trimmed and kept healthy, let alone the indiscriminate breeding issues. While I have every sympathy for people's difficult lives, grief, pain and depression, it doesn't make it alright to treat animals as you choose to live yourself, unless you choose to care for yourself & keep yourself healthy. I'm sure Clwyd is a lovely man, but I'm also of the opinion he should possibly be helping out in some small way with other people's horses, such as Michelle's, and not owning his own.
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