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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 13, 2012 22:55:06 GMT 1
Do any of you have problems feeding your horse enough fibre? Or do you see people around you who clearly aren't feeding enough fibre?
We've got a great potential article for the IH magazine about the good points about feeding fibre (I'm sure most old time DGers are well educated on this) and I'd like to ask the writer to add some pointers about why it doesn't always happen - to bring the article into the 'real world' a bit.
I think there's a lot of people know what they 'should' do but they can't or don't because ...?
Can you help me with your questions or stories?
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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2012 0:24:37 GMT 1
Why do some vets still prescribe very limited amounts of (unsoaked!) hay to horses on box rest in acute laminitis? I read this all the time on fora and it drives me nuts I'm afraid. One small slice (whatever that means) twice a day was the worst I read.
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Post by jen1 on Dec 14, 2012 0:28:31 GMT 1
id say a lot of livery yards don't cater for feeding enough fibre, i have in the past had people turn up here fill 1 net for the whole night so 24 hours have past until they get a new net i was a basic requirment that horses did not run out of hay even when i was a teenager so whats going wrong? same with water, i do provide ad lib hay in the fields Barney could eat his way through 2 bales of hay in 12 hours, don't feed huge bucket feeds,
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Post by jes on Dec 14, 2012 1:57:20 GMT 1
On my previous livery yards I got 1 haynet per day included, filled by the YO, which would last 2 maybe 3 hours. So I always had to pay for extra hay. At my current yard they get more or less as much as they can eat. I actually have to tell my YO to cut down on the amount of hay she's giving as my horses were putting weight on.
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Post by kizi on Dec 14, 2012 2:38:29 GMT 1
Oh boy.. Can open.. I was recently (unfortunately) at a yard where the riding school ponies got fed 'feed' at 9am with a small amount of hay.. They then worked until 5/6 pm.. Then at some stage after that 6-8pm got their dinner 'feed' and a small amount of hay. That was it. These guys believe they are well looked after ponies.. I cannot understand how they are not skin and bone but they are the typical riding school don't waste any energy ponies.. By 3/4pm several ponies were eating any dropping they could get near, even while being ridden.. They are stables all day in winter that they are not being ridden and on their day off get a hour in a sand round pen.. This is normal in many of the riding schools I have been in (before anyone shoots that comment down I will pm names locations and so on) they get hay for a hour brekkie, lunch if its busy season, maybe 2 hours worth at the end of their day.. And if lucky another little later on.. Lucky to get 4-5 hours worth of hay, those I am referring to didnt get turnout when I experienced this routine. It was also often dependant on the staff on the day.. Big busy yards, (I know not all) know they need more but it doesn't always fit the schedule.. I cried often..
Mine get adlib 24/7 Haylege.. They may run out for a hour or two over night but usually don't. They don't 'pig out' because they now know food wont stop.. Except youngsters up to now everyone else have all had fibre only feeds with added minerals/acv/kelp etc. I hate coarse mix.. It's so much sugar.. The youngsters depending on them get nuts or balancer always with plenty added fibre. Since changing to primarily a fibre only diet supplemented as necessary.. Feet are super, coats are super, things like sweet itch are down, all are out 24/7 barefoot and naked (except 2 I'm weaning off rugs-the owners not the ponies!) however my ponies lifestyles comes with complications.. All that hay is expensive, time consuming bringing it out to them every day, a lot of extra work in the field.. They poop a lot.. Often in the area they get fed so it gets messy.. People don't want their fields in a mess.. I have hard standing in most now but that gets very messy too... In winter they can get big bellies from the hay.. But mine don't do much work in winter anyway so that's neither here nor there.. But obviously if I wanted mine in hard work.. It would be hard work and less successful.. Not the fibre but the lifestyle.. I got brill small hole nets this week that hold a large round bale for in the field feeding... So far-fantastic! Saves a lot of work!!!!! Oops I'm going on a bit.. I've become obsessed in the last 18 months with natural this that and what ever I can to keep them... They are all better animals for it... I just wish I could control the rain...
Oh, recently got told of a horse owner going away for 2 nights. He gave the horse half a bale (a square one-fit in a wheelbarrow) before he left....... Yup... That's all....
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Post by mollichop64 on Dec 14, 2012 7:58:06 GMT 1
Kizi, those bale nets sounds just what I need too. Where did you get them from?
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Post by clipclop on Dec 14, 2012 8:13:43 GMT 1
They don't 'pig out' because they now know food wont stop.. I find this an important fact that becomes a vicious circle. Most horses (not all) will self regulate if forage is available to them constantly. The same as how horses who live out don't graze 100% of the time but those who only go out for a couple of hours barely lift their heads to breathe! Once a horse starts to gorge at hay, the owners start to worry about weight gain and the cycle begins. I actually had a horse once that if you fed hay on the floor, it would last him all night. If you put it in a net, especially a small holed one, he'd feel he was having to fight for it and would gorge it down. The other thing is that people on livery often leave their horses at 6pm and don't return until over 12 hours later. People who keep their horses at home often do a late night check where they provide more hay. I once was chatting to a someone who had always kept horses at home and they just couldn't get their heads around how long liveried horses are left without being skipped out and having water and hay topped up. Although not ideal, it's sadly not possible for most diyers to do any different. Sent from my ST18i using proboards
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Post by jill on Dec 14, 2012 8:23:06 GMT 1
Aged horses and ponies who can't manage much (any) good forage need a total hay replacer diet. Mainly unmollassed beet pulp but alfalfa products etc and it is possible but amounts required are quite large. Poor teeth and inability to swallow long fibre are two of the causes, and more evident now that we are managing to keep our equines to older ages than a generation ago.
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Post by Catrin on Dec 14, 2012 10:51:37 GMT 1
Owners who don't understand — I used to be one a long time ago — think their horse needs hay according to its weight and some pony nuts because he doesn't do much work. Hay according to weight, means they have been taught principals based on the working of a stabled cavalry and not taught principals based on the workings of a horse's gut. Pony nuts because he doesn't work, means that they have a vague idea that hay doesn't give the equine all he needs and the false idea that grass does. Vets are not nutritionists: overheard recently when an 'equine' vet was talking about a fat pony, "My pony is stabled overnight and only gets a handful of hay, so that he can lose weight." I sent the owner a copy of an information sheet from an 'informed' vet that explained how insulin spikes occur when a horse eats food after hours of deprivation, and how you should really deal with a fat pony. Forage is important, but as Ian teaches on Food and Nutrition, read labels. That's when you discover that the very useful Dengie Fibre Food Finder www.dengie.com/pages/products/alfa-a-and-hi-fi-ranges/fibre-feed-finder.php leads you to feed molasses to a laminitic horse! Not in work Hi–Fi Lite Ingredients: Cereal Straw, Alfalfa Molasses, Mould Inhibitor. In work but not underweight Alfa–A Lite Ingredients: Alfalfa, Molasses, Spearmint Oil My two get Alfa–A Oil, Ingredients: Alfalfa, Soya Oil, Vitamin E. or Alfa–A Molasses Free, Ingredients: Chopped alfalfa, alfalfa pellets, soya oil, mint and fenugreek. In addition they have Speedi–beet and ad lib Haylage
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wills
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 4,657
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Post by wills on Dec 14, 2012 11:18:45 GMT 1
The other thing is that people on livery often leave their horses at 6pm and don't return until over 12 hours later. People who keep their horses at home often do a late night check where they provide more hay. I once was chatting to a someone who had always kept horses at home and they just couldn't get their heads around how long liveried horses are left without being skipped out and having water and hay topped up. Although not ideal, it's sadly not possible for most diyers to do any different. Sent from my ST18i using proboards IMO that comes down to owners knowledge. One of mine is on a yard and checked last time about 6pm until 6 am. Not once have I gone up to find her with an empty haynet or water bucket. I couldn't agree more with Kizzy re the pigging out. If one more "well informed" busy body tells me I'm feeding my minis to much I may well scream, they get ad lib hay and are on SS, adviced amounts split into two small feeds a day. They are not in anyway over weight and (touch wood) never had any lami issues. I really hate seeing horses left without.
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Post by clipclop on Dec 14, 2012 11:22:39 GMT 1
Wills - I don't disagree but sadly too many horses are left at 6pm and are totally without hay from 8 or 9pm. If the owners went to check them late on, they would realise this is the case and 'hopefully' give them more.
Sent from my ST18i using proboards
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Post by kizi on Dec 14, 2012 11:37:01 GMT 1
With regard to the pigging out.. Having had many starved and neglected ponies it is something that has taken a while for many to learn.. Even when the food keeps coming regularly I've had some that I couldn't let out with a bale before now because it seems to take the worst of them years to over come even with ulcer treatment etc. one pony I have had 6 years who is 25+/- this is the first year I have been able to leave her with ad lib Haylege but that may be an age/teeth issue too.. However despite living out for 6 years and food always coming she simply cannot be allowed near grass.. Cannot be given the opportunity to stop pigging out on grass because within 24 hours she will get bloat/gas colic.. Even if I build it up in 10 min time slots over weeks if there's green stuff she does not lift her head.. But at least I can now allow her have adlib Haylege..that she doesn't feel she must finish as quick as possible. But she's probably got massive guy damage from years of malnutrition.. It's sad!
One pony I rehomed this week I have had almost 4 years. A little 11.2 pony who I could never get to eat any sort of feed of any type.. She only ever in that time had 100% fibre, grass and hay diet, her poop was massive! The healthiest gut I ever saw.. She does bigger ones than a 15h horse and never a days trouble with her.. A lot to be said for fibre only..
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Post by cbc on Dec 14, 2012 11:46:08 GMT 1
I suspect this might be a can of worms, but.. Feeding straw. Over the years I have fed straw for a variety of reasons, but have fed it to ensure that my horses/ponies have had access to a supply of fibre. I have balanced any nutritional worries I may have by feeding a supplement/hard feed depending on individual circumstances. (ok, that has just compressed loads of years and scenarios). If hay is expensive and scarce sometimes, straw can be an alternative if fed with care? Would that be something you could discuss in your article?
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Post by rosemaryhannah on Dec 14, 2012 11:56:02 GMT 1
Mace has a 'wave mouth' which cannot be fully corrected. The summer is fine - he can manage short grass. In the winter he has soaked beet and alf alfa nuts and is the only one of mine to also have oil and 'hard feed'. Sometimes very little underweight but nothing bad. Does he get enough fibre? Possibly not. However he is alive to greet the spring. So far. The others are fed fibre only - the rough grazing which is sparse by the end of March and alf alfa nuts and hay. I admit the nuts are to save me work because dampening enough hay for them all becomes very labour intensive during the long periods of frost I get here at altitude in Scotland. The nuts are a quick way to top them up and ensure they are fed often enough.
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Post by clara81 on Dec 14, 2012 11:57:25 GMT 1
I would like to know about feeding adequate fibre to an elderly pony that can't even manage chaff. She has soaked fibre- grass nuts, fast fibre and sugar beet- but I don't think it lasts her long enough. I also worry about the weight of all that mash in her guts!
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