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Post by kizi on Dec 14, 2012 12:01:29 GMT 1
Last year and early this year when I was radically changing my feeding methods etc and getting some of those little ponies onto the adlib idea I did use straw to fill the gaps rather than have the inevitable weight gain with small ponies.. It worked well and I would do it again in spring/summer if I needed to rather than have nothing there.. But I'm anti grass with small ponies and even some bigger ones... This past 12 months all my barefoot feet have been better than ever before.. So more fibre less grass works.. With ponies anyway! So ya I would replace grass with straw for the little ones again.. Tho now my smallest pony is 13.2 apart from my miniatures and I tend to steer clear of the straw with them because they are tiny with tiny guts.. But they now too respect the adlib Haylege and are a good weight. The track system was amazing this year and I'll do that again..
Rambling sorry... This will be an interesting article though!!!
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Post by mags on Dec 14, 2012 12:28:15 GMT 1
I find it a bit of a challenge to feed my senior mare properly in winter. Her teeth aren't very good and while she can graze, she can't really chew hay. Once the grass is gone, she really needs to get her fibre in a bucket. But she lives out 24/7 on DIY livery with a herd, and considering the amount/bulk of her fibre-feed buckets, it takes her quite a long time to finish.
So it essentially boils down to a time-management problem. Someone has to be there several times a day to pull her out of the herd, give her at least half an hour to finish her bucket and put her back out.
Similarly, when my gelding was lame and on rest for close to 8 months, it was challenging to find a way to keep small amounts of hay available without overfeeding him (good doer). I built him a slow-down hay feeder that was topped up twice a day with a weighed-out amount of hay, but there'd still be a few hours between feeds when all the hay was gone. Not ideal, but I don't know how you'd manage a situation like that better without staff/a machine available to feed small amounts of fibre every few hours.
IMO, it's not so much about fibre feeds not being available, or people not knowing better. It's mostly about management options to make fibre available in small amounts throughout the day.
ETA: my senior mare can still chew chaff, so I'm not really struggling with what to feed her.
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Post by kizi on Dec 14, 2012 13:11:44 GMT 1
Kizi, those bale nets sounds just what I need too. Where did you get them from? Sorry forgot to reply to this earlier.. I found them on Facebook! Poise equestrian, they are in the uk poiseequestrian.co.uk |
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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 14, 2012 14:24:03 GMT 1
Thank you so much for these stories and questions - SO interesting! And Kizi I am going straight to that poiseequestrian.co.uk site now!
Kx
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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2012 14:57:19 GMT 1
I fed completely ad lib for a few years, grass/24/7 turnout with a bale in the field in winter. Looking back most were overweight and one grossly. They never got used to eating a sensible amount and of course the grass and hay may well have had high calorific value. Now I try to feed low sugar hay (soaked), grass for some in (hopefully) lower risk times and feed enough so they don't run out. Being soaked I can feed more as well.
I use nets and other devises to slow them down which I would prefer not to but being over weight carries such health risks.
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Post by kizi on Dec 14, 2012 15:30:22 GMT 1
Good point, my Haylege is made for my lot! It's my own so I grow it for longer so its more stemmy when cut so that I can feed it adlib.. Better quality (tho I consider mine better in the scheme of things) it wouldn't be possible probably!
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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2012 15:33:14 GMT 1
Oh boy.. Can open.. I was recently (unfortunately) at a yard where the riding school ponies got fed 'feed' at 9am with a small amount of hay.. They then worked until 5/6 pm.. Then at some stage after that 6-8pm got their dinner 'feed' and a small amount of hay. That was it. These guys believe they are well looked after ponies.. I cannot understand how they are not skin and bone but they are the typical riding school don't waste any energy ponies.. By 3/4pm several ponies were eating any dropping they could get near, even while being ridden.. They are stables all day in winter that they are not being ridden and on their day off get a hour in a sand round pen.. This is normal in many of the riding schools I have been in (before anyone shoots that comment down I will pm names locations and so on) they get hay for a hour brekkie, lunch if its busy season, maybe 2 hours worth at the end of their day.. And if lucky another little later on.. Lucky to get 4-5 hours worth of hay, those I am referring to didnt get turnout when I experienced this routine. It was also often dependant on the staff on the day.. Big busy yards, (I know not all) know they need more but it doesn't always fit the schedule.. I cried often.. I believe you. I've visited a couple of riding schools and the ponies never have any hay or actually they seem to be fed silage by the stink in the place. I have been during the day and evening... no forage in any of the stables I looked in. I actually believe that the 'out of sight, out of mind' mentality comes into play. One net and if it's gone in the morning for eg. no thought is given to the possibility it was eaten in 1- 2 hours and the horse is left for 6-8 or more hours with nothing. Another forum favorite... of course horses do 'like a lie in some days' didn't ya know!  |
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Post by megansmum on Dec 14, 2012 23:03:55 GMT 1
cbc I feed a bucket once a day evening' in it it has oat straw chaff, vit and min suppliment, garlic, yeast, celery seed for arthritis', seaweed ,and turmeric' they live out 24/7 no rugs, no shoes, and they do over 60 poos in 24 hours' not small ones either' there are 3 horses and a pony' they have carrots as treats and a few handfulls of lucie nuts as treats' they have lovely thick coats and feet are great' Horses are meant to eat 18 hours a day and fibre is all they need iff not in hard work'
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calekio
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,235
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Post by calekio on Dec 17, 2012 8:17:54 GMT 1
I have problems with 2 of mine getting enough fibre. Both are laminitic/cushings ponies however both don't get enough for oppisite reasons.
May is one of them who is on rations.. when she is doing well.. she gets ad-lib soaked hay.. currently that is about 4kg's per day with limited turnout (2.5kg overnight then 1.5kg x2 net during day shared with another pony and they never finish it).. she is offered more soaked hay but won't eat it.. i've come to the conclusion that with the amount of time she has spent her rations her body now cannot cope with the larger amounts.. however when she is bad with the lammi her rations dramatically reduce and she goes from that above.. to being in a box 24/7 only being allowed a max of 3kg's per day.. she is on fast fibre and just started to add alfalfa pellets as a bit of crunchy varity.. she currently get about 0.5kg's of her per day split before 3 meals (as she won't eat any more currently) again if she ate more she'd get more.
Splash on the other hand.. get ad-lib unsoaked hay at night but only eats about 0.5-1kg, and shares the soaked hay with may. He won't eat fast fibre but get offered a small lunchtime feed with may.. and gets 500gms of veteran vitality per day... struggle to get more fibre into him!
when dinki comes in he's normally got a full belly from the grass and gets ad-lib hay, he gets 2kgs but never finishes it... i'm actually quite shocked as last year he was in every night through winter and on the same amount of hay as rationed...
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Dec 18, 2012 20:56:12 GMT 1
I have trouble feeding hay they wont eat it when it is wet so no soaking or leaving big bales s they have a slice between 3 it still gives the real good doers diahorrea even at that rate so they have a small feed of alfa a oil, fast fibre and speedibeet everyday to keep them fed and a tiny bit of hay but it only last about 10 minutes. I only introduce hay when the poos drop too low so know it isnt the feed causing the upset tummy as they have them all year round. Need ideas on how to feed more hay without wetting it or it giving them the runs
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Post by ladyndibs on Dec 18, 2012 22:17:07 GMT 1
My three are out on limited grass 24/7 they are in together, two are good doers, my other mare is an extremely good doer, if I put out ad lib hay to suit the two she would be the size of a small town within days.
It is a compromise, Silky goes in her stable for as long as she wants with as much hay as she can eat, often for 2-3 hrs.
Dibbles has a haynet as soon as I arrive when he walks off I remove it and Lady hoovers up his leftovers, I normally leave him with a medium sized net when I leave and I try and get Silky to have a good munch too.
All three have some feed, Lady's is just a handful of pony nuts with suppliments whereas Dibbles and Silky get 4-6 handfuls of pony nuts with a handful of baked cereal. When I leave they have small holed nets spread around with a mix of hay and straw, in total 2 large nets of hay the rest straw, so far so good there is always straw left in at least three differant places and sometimes there's even a bit of hay left.
I have tried Lady on ad lib hay and she gained 20kg in less than two weeks and was already overweight, now and again 'cos I'm sad, I count the poo and on average there are around 42-45 a day so I think they are getting enough roughage but if anyone has any ideas on how better to manage Lady's eating, short of having her jaw wired I'd be interested to hear.
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Post by shan on Dec 19, 2012 21:53:43 GMT 1
If Sandy's in at night I double up small holed haynets, she can get through them in a very short time - it amazes me actually. I fill them to maximum capacity and although she empties them in the night there's always some on the floor. As she's a good-doer who will try & snatch a bit of dirty bedding from a barrow if it's available, I therefore feel fine that she hasn't hoovered the floor as well! She probably eats her bedding too and is an olympic standard pooer so I think she gets enough fibre! She gets a handful of low calorie chaff to mix her supps in and balancer, once a day. The one night I left her with a 4ft bale in the stable as I had nowhere to store it, she went at it like she'd never been fed, and drained a whole bucket of water - I don't think she'd ration herself to what she needs, just stuff till she popped!
I'm amazed at lami horses getting 2 hours' worth of hay a day too, on vets' say-so. Next stop Ulcer City? What's the alternative to crash dieting and/or keeping the weight off for these cases?
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Post by Mellymoo on Dec 20, 2012 17:50:55 GMT 1
I would like to know why most feeds are covered in molasses - so unnecessary!! My dentist said when he came last that they have to do fillings on horses now, due to all the sugary rubbish in feeds!!
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orangetails
Intermediate Poster
Jay, Lilly and Tangle
Posts: 219
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Post by orangetails on Dec 21, 2012 21:43:02 GMT 1
Wills - I don't disagree but sadly too many horses are left at 6pm and are totally without hay from 8 or 9pm. If the owners went to check them late on, they would realise this is the case and 'hopefully' give them more. I agree, and it's one of the things that saddens me most about livery yards - for the most part I try very much to let other people keep their horses as they wish and not 'interfere' but horses stood without forage for any length of time is a real bugbear of mine, and sadly all too common. My yard is totally DIY, and I am usually one of the last owners to bring in of an evening, because I like my guys to have as much time in the field as possible (if I do bring in early - 5-6pm is 'early' for me, I do a late night visit at about 9pm, but they come in between about 8 and 9pm routinely) It means I often see the horses who have been brought in at 4/5pm standing with their nearly empty nets at 8pm, and then they have absolutely nothing until their owners turn up the next morning (usually these are the same owners who don't turn out until 9am, so they're stood the best part of 12hrs without food  ) I usually try and find a way of working it into conversation with the novice owners, just in a friendly 'oh so and so was banging the door a bit last night while I was bringing in, I noticed he'd finished all his hay' but it doesn't always make a difference I suspect some of it also comes down to cost (small bale hay can be up to £7 round here) but a lot of it is simple lack of knowledge - or being guided by the wrong people (there's a lot of 'the blind leading the blind' on my yard!) Mine have 'ad-lib' hay, but I do weigh it to avoid wastage and also keep a check on what they are eating. I manage it so that they have a couple of big handfuls left by the time I get there in the morning to turn out. I base the 'ad lib' calculations roughly on 2% of their bodyweight - my arab tends to self-limit at this anyway. My cob would eat bales and bales overnight if I let her, so I use a small holed net to ensure the amount she gets is enough to satisfy her fibre requirements weight-wise as well as lasting her through the night, but it doesn't bankrupt me in true 'ad lib' fashion as I am not an endless money-pit lol! One of the biggest forage misconceptions I find is the 'you need to feed less haylage than hay because it's richer'. Actually on a weight for weight basis you need to feed MORE, because a greater percentage of haylage is water rather than dry matter and so the fibre ration is likely to fall short if less is fed, particularly in winter when there's little of anything in the fields. IME horses generally also gannet haylage faster than hay because it's yummier, so you have even more of an issue in terms of my first point, with the horse's stood empty in their stables for hours on end. And because it's usually the more novice owners who end up with this kind of situation, any misbehaviours from the horse are then labelled as 'naughty' and 'he needs sorting out', when actually the poor horse is probably suffering from ulcers I think it's a real danger of the increase of private (novice) owners because riding schools are so expensive, so people don't have the necessary horse management skills, and even the odd few who do have lessons don't get that kind of knowledge from their instructors (either because the instructor isn't aware, or because they are likely to lose the custom if they start 'dictating' on matters of horsecare, and who can afford to lose clients in this economic climate?) |
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Dec 21, 2012 22:57:24 GMT 1
I fed completely ad lib for a few years, grass/24/7 turnout with a bale in the field in winter. Looking back most were overweight and one grossly. They never got used to eating a sensible amount and of course the grass and hay may well have had high calorific value. Now I try to feed low sugar hay (soaked), grass for some in (hopefully) lower risk times and feed enough so they don't run out. Being soaked I can feed more as well. I use nets and other devises to slow them down which I would prefer not to but being over weight carries such health risks. I agree. Ive had nancy on a diet for the last 3 months. Because of her history of ulcers i was terrified of limiting hay, but i could never manage her weight this way and she was always carrying too much. She never regulated what she ate. So now, im triple netting. Ive ordered a trickle net but its taking ages to get here. She is at an ideal weight now, and i need to keep it that way so i have to be strict. Im fortunate that im at the stables all day so i can put small amounts in through the day but have times when she isnt eating. Having a good doer is hard. Im confident mine get enough fibre given the amount of poos ;D Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards |
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) I usually try and find a way of working it into conversation with the novice owners, just in a friendly 'oh so and so was banging the door a bit last night while I was bringing in, I noticed he'd finished all his hay' but it doesn't always make a difference 