cuffey
Olympic Poster
Posts: 962
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Post by cuffey on May 28, 2012 14:22:04 GMT 1
By starting the thread I had no intention of causing hurt--just seeking an explanation--as all the TWH shoeing/soring/stacking has come up again 6years on with recent court cases. There now seem to be 2 groups of people, one who are still quite extreme and seem to think the horses cannot step without 'stacks' and others who are going for a more natural approach which we would all approve of. The video in the other thread posted by Mandal showing a completely natural TWH in 1999 being shown against those 'stacked'' was amazing, the natural horse kept going in a completely balanced way with boundless energy giving the rider the smooth paces which the breed were famed for. The stacked horses with unnatural gait had to keep stopping and were clearly breathing heavily. Well worth a look but how long is it taking to sort this problem www.walkinonranch.com/celebrationrides.html
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Post by zack&buffysmum on May 28, 2012 14:48:40 GMT 1
Monty will always have my 100% support. I also didnt comment on the other thread as (a) I dont know enough about TWH to be able to offer anything constructive and (b) I have been too much of a coward to watch some of the video of them that has been on here recently - I've been shocked enough by what has been said. I was another completely novice horse owner when I got my Zack. I was being 'helped' by an 'experienced' friend. About 6 months on into my foray into horse ownership, me and the 'friend' had gone our separate ways. I was looking elsewhere for advice and support and found it on here - and it made a LOT more sense to me than what I was hearing at the yard. I will be forever gratefull to Monty and Kelly for IH - and hopefully my horses will be too!
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Post by barbararob on May 28, 2012 14:58:46 GMT 1
i didn't comment on the other thread as a clip is but a moment in time , who knows what or how the events happened. In most walks of life there are things we are and are not comfortable with but it doesn't mean we should be judgemental - I shake my head on occasions when I see trainer bashing going on (not that thats what the TWH thread was doing but as stated elsewhere why does it have to be MY WAY or the HIGH WAY. We all need to be doing things with the right intention even if it puts us in difficult spots. I'm fairly sure Monty has dusted bigger piles of judgement off his broad shoulder.
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Post by Kelly Marks on May 28, 2012 15:49:09 GMT 1
I think people should be allowed to question (within reason - there are only so many hours in the day - plus Monty has to get someone to type it all up for him so pity that poor person who would rather be doing something else too!)
I know personally that answering some difficult questions has made me think hard - which is no bad thing. I do have a problem though with people coming on this site who basically have no respect for Monty and what he's done at all - and make really hurtful criticisms even though they've never spent one day with him.
Some of us have known him personally for nearly 20 years now. And driven him to schools and rescue centres and all over the place helping people for nothing when he gets any spare time. Also some Horsey Coffee mornings! (In American and New Zealand he's also regularly visits prisons and youth detention centres. )
On the members we had to remove a thread about another trainer because the DG could be liable for legal action. It seems though you can come on here and say anything as nasty as you like about Monty - without whom this DG would never have existed - and Kitty made me think ... I wonder what ever I would have been doing if I'd never had met Monty ... and then if I hadn't have met Monty then Kitty wouldn't have come on the courses and been working for H&CTV now ... has anyone seen that film 'It's a Wonderful Life' where he's going to commit suicide and he says to God 'I wish I'd never been born' - and an Angel shows him what would have happened if he's never been born and all the good things that have happened because of him ...
Kitty must make this into a feature length special for H&CTV immediately!
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Post by sandy on May 28, 2012 16:15:08 GMT 1
Love that film x
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eden
Olympic Poster
Posts: 662
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Post by eden on May 28, 2012 17:12:19 GMT 1
I have never heard of that film, I need to see it.x
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Post by ruthp on May 28, 2012 17:47:03 GMT 1
I too was saddened that Monty felt the need to reply twice as some comments suggested they thought his first, detailed and thorough response was less than complete.
Monty, like the rest of us, is a human being with all the frailities and hang ups that goes along with being one of our species - and he has far more reason than I for some of those hang ups. But what has he done with it? - He's gone out and tried to make the world a better place for horses.
Has he succeeded - yes definitely. My horse for one has a better life than she would have done if he hadn't spread the word. It was Monty's teachings that led me to understand that there is a better way to work with horses, that makes life easier for both of us. And I'm reasonably confident that there are a few other people who will say the same thing. Probably millions.
Has he succeeded everywhere? - Probably not yet. There are far too many people in this world who cannot cope with change and will always think they know better.
Is he still trying - yes, yes and yes.
So, thank you Monty, for your tireless work, and for making me question not only how I manage my horses, but my dogs, my colleagues, and even my husband! (And before anyone asks - it's much easier to manage a husband with consensus than conflict!!)
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Post by rosemaryhannah on May 28, 2012 17:54:40 GMT 1
It is not (in my opinion) 'guruism' to acknowledge a spectacular life-time achievement, which is what Monty has achieved.
Nor is it guruism to acknowledge that the people who get slammed are human beings, with feelings.
I repeat, there are uncomfortable situations when you find you have been stitched up, and you can either look at those around you and do what is best for them, or you can look to doing the best for yourself. Monty has a life-time's commitment to doing the best to change minds,and he went right on doing it, even if it put him in a place where he looked less than spotless. Actually that takes courage.
You think they would never have had the stallion run if Monty did not work with him? You think he would have woken up next morning with natural feet, and been like to work in a normal way?
Seeking to change is not condoning - getting in there and risking getting dirty is not approving.
Greyson commented on the bloke who made a habit of dining with collaborators and whores. He, too, was accused of offering approval - but he went right on trying to change minds instead.
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Post by suzirock on May 28, 2012 20:05:32 GMT 1
I had a baby 10 weeks ago....hubby and I were both agreed that if we had a boy he was to be called Monty. Thats how much we respect and admire you Mr Roberts Turns out we had a girl, called her Pollyanna instead. The thought was there though x
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Post by amelia on May 28, 2012 20:37:00 GMT 1
I'm another who has nothing but complete admiration and gratitude for Monty - he not only has helped horses but he helps people in the process. From the second I read The Man who Listens to Horses many years ago my life changed and I have become a better person as well as horsewoman.
I would love for us to all list down the names of the horses who we know have had their lives made better because of Monty, either directly or indirectly. I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands of horses/ponies worldwide that have benefitted and many many who literally owe their lives to the man.
Thank you Monty from Me, Sunny, Shanti and Sparks xxx
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2012 20:37:52 GMT 1
Monty you will always have my utmost respect for what you do w ith horses andn with people, some people have closed minds, Monty tries his best to open those minds to other possibilities and to other kinder and ore productive methods, as they saying goes 'softly softly catchee monkey' and thats what Monty does walk softly and talks softly but with conviction and persuasion brings folks round to kinder methods. Yes the TWH lot do have the bad apples and the only way to change things is from the inside, and if that means getting onside with the more disreputable ones then so be it, Monty has never shied away from a challenge, hell he's been challenging us for years hasn't he? He hasn't ever done anything but good for this place and for us we are better people and better horse men and women for having him in our lives...............
The video clips only show us what the person talking the viseo wants us to see and they can put whatever spin on it they like, to some it may seem that Monty was condoning the actions of TWH brigade, but to us we know the real Monty the caring Monty who wants to bring about a change, winning hearts and minds is a slow business but with perserverance and our support then the changes will come, maybe not tomorrow or next week but slowly and quietly over a period of time they will change for the better.
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Post by curlytobiano on May 28, 2012 21:32:21 GMT 1
I've always loved this quote from Dwight D Eisenhower: "Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field" I don't know about farming being easy, but Monty sure is one great farmer!
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Post by limepickle on May 28, 2012 21:56:18 GMT 1
I haven't been on here for a few weeks due to other things in life, so I was shocked to read about the discussions about the TW horses. I don't know enough about their situation to make valid comment, but as this thread was about supporting Monty himself, then I will give mine here.
I have been a fan of Monty's ever since I worked in a yard where Michael Peace came for a job 25 years ago (!) and got us all to give Monty's theory of join-up a go, and use it for starting the yearling racehorses (instead of "breaking them in"). It made quite a difference, and the idea of this form of equine communication has stuck with me ever since.
Two years ago I was given a 9 year old gelding who through no fault of his own had had to be retired from a promising showjumping career after an injury. He was going to be "just" a companion to my two already-owned horses. However, Junior wasn't "just" anything. He was mentally damaged goods, though not through abuse; he just didn't understand how to switch off from being an athlete, or how to be sociable in my little herd. We had some serious issues, until one day he cottoned on that I knew what he was saying, and that he could understand me, too, with my pidgin equine body language. It was one of those eureka moments for Junior, and we haven't looked back. I can not only "talk" to him, but he trusts me in a way that I don't think would have been as complete had I never taken on board anything Monty had taught. Junior might get cross with me still, but it's with a sulk and a swishing tail and a glint in his eye (because he knows I'm right about putting on his sweet-itch lotion!) rather than ears back, confusion and running away because our communication got misread.
So, I am 100% a fan of Monty's, and will always know that each and every one of my horses will have better lives because of him. I think this is what Monty would hope for all of us, isn't it?
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Post by mjcssjw2 on May 28, 2012 22:07:04 GMT 1
no 'we' didn't, but some people did and were quite insistent!!
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Post by kizi on May 28, 2012 22:09:08 GMT 1
I haven't read every comment there's too many but I get the gist of both threads and have read montys reply, and didnt comment because had not watched the video nor did i know all the history of the twh and you know what, I do understand his side. I can see why people got caught up in the video, it happens every day.. But I personally have had people arrive at my yard for a lesson with lists of things that bother me. Bad fitted tack, terrible feet/shoes, unbalanced horses through always working one rein, over bitting, harsh hands, etc etc etc... If I don't take them in and start to teach them it will only get worse for their horse not better... If i only fix half its a huge bonus for that horse, But it will take some weeks or even months to make some of those owners see that I'm not preaching but only that I am truly trying to help them and their horse. Some people don't want to listen! Some go away after one day and change what is in their power to change ASAP, others have taken a long long time to start to realise what they can do to improve. If someone came in here and videoed that first lesson with the harsh hands, bad feet and pinching saddle what would they say about me as an instructor.. But if they came back later to see some results then maybe people everywhere would sit up and listen a bit better... So monty, from my point of view that video will be a good thing, because when you do go back with cameras as I hope you will, and you get to show the after then so many people who have refused to listen before then will and you will not be asked for explanations or justification again on the matter!!!!!!! But I understand your frustration. I think really all of us on here do, maybe some more than others, but all of us have had to defend ourselves and our methods to the 'old school' majority. Lets hope one day they will be the minority..!!
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