fifi
Novice Poster
Posts: 20
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Post by fifi on Aug 4, 2009 22:55:52 GMT 1
Imprints really helped my boy. He's had laminitis on and off witrh his previous owner for the last 3 yrs. He has more rotation than yours but is now back in work so there is hope. All my boy gets is soaked hay and a scoop Happy Hoof (he's 13.3hh). I've found that he has a trigger weight for his laminitis. I weightape him every couple of days to make sure I keep him well away from that weight. I have to keep him a little underweight so you can see his ribs rather than just feel them. If I lose sight of those ribs...back come the pulses. I would cutout the HiFi and the nuts and just feed soaked hay until you are under control...and feed the meds in a yogurt paste or similar. I would want to completely clear out her system...lots of water and just soaked hay. Complete box rest and a prayer...
Best of luck.xx
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Jane
Olympic Poster
Colo ("koala")
Posts: 938
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Post by Jane on Aug 4, 2009 23:29:57 GMT 1
Shadowofachance, you need to pull out all the stops on every level, immediately. This is fire-fighting time. It's good to hear that you're onto the metabolic horse group - Jackie Taylor will give you excellent advice and I'd say follow it to the nth degree, ASAP.
Don't walk your horse anywhere.... do as little as possible that might risk disturbing the hooves at this difficult stage. Sedatives are good at the moment in that they'll minimise her movement. Even when you muck out, see if you can do it with your mare in there. It is possible!
From your first post, I was already wondering if your mare is a welsh cob before looking at the video - she looks welsh? Your story had a horrible ring to it: my welshie had exactly the same thing happen with the hooves continuing to sink once he was in the stable and had lost weight. They are heavy horses and I believe it comes down to sheer weight. My equine vet explained it at the time as there being a greater weight to surface area of the laminae ratio - if that makes sense? That's why little ponies find it so much easier to bounce back time and time again.
I truly hope you have got onto this continuing sinking in time. By posting here and looking at every aspect of your mare's care, you are doing the very best thing possible.
Totally agree about cutting feeds down to soaked hay at this stage - it feels cruel, but it's a necessary step until you can totally detox her system and start putting only the right stuff in. Jackie Taylor will certainly help you with that.
If you have any frankincense oil, see if your girl likes it - my boy went crazy for it, as it's good for inflammation. It doesn't cure laminitis, but it gave us some fun moments in the stable together :-) You need those too. What else did he love: peppermint oil, carrot oil...
Best of luck - this is an agonising condition to deal with. Please let us know how you progress. Stay strong.
Jane
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Post by becky1simba on Aug 4, 2009 23:35:53 GMT 1
Hi again Shadowofachance right i'll see if I can be of some help with the food front with the diet that worked for my pony Eszy whom was in the same bad state as your beautiful girl.Firstly i'd stop the Lamishield as Eszy was very sensitive to it and it upset her gut and unbalanced her more, just in case the same is with your mare. I gave less soaked hay and gave more Hi-Fi Lite but weighted everything she had and did everything by her total weight and condition. She was a tiny bit heavier than I wanted so I gave her 1.5% of her total bodyweight in fibre a day to get it off her but never give any less than this. If her weight is fine give her 2% of her bodyweight as that is what you want to be giving ideally as starving is the worst thing you can possibly do. Give her food all through the day as horses are grazers and need to be constantly chewing and digesting fibre to have a health gut. Even if you have to leave lots of little pre soaked double netted haynets so that she has to work for her food and it will last her longer. Also i'd change the pony nuts to a 'fibre cube' that are Laminits Trust Approved. Definately get her on Formula 4 Feet it is fantastic stuff and has been amazing for my mare and caused her hoof to grow down fully in 10 months instead of the normal 12 months and my farrier thoght it was amazing how healthy and strong it has made her feet and they don't look Laminitic like at all. The diet you may like to follow is: 1.Hi-Fi Lite (quantity as by your horses weight) 2.Formula 4 Feet (quantity as by your horse weight) 3.Yea-Sac (get it from Jacqui and feed as by horses weight) 4.Pure Magnesium Oxcide (get it from Jacqui and feed as by your horses weight) 5.Forever Living Aloe Vera (follow levels on bottle) 6.Speedi Beet as they love it and it takes the taste of all the powders away and it's just pure fibre
Please keep shoes on her with in built frog supports as she really needs the support at the moment as her feet are in a fragile state. Watch out for her getting Seedy Toe as mine developed it from the Laminitis but it is all under control. Also watch out for abcesses and gas pockets between the hoof wall and the pedal bone as the Laminine has been ripped apart and damaged so they can get gas pockets in there and it's very painfully for them. I'd also recommend getting some magnetic boots for her as it will improve the circulation to her feet. P.M me if you want any more help and i'll give you my number. All the best and don't loss heart there is light at the end of the tunnel trust me Becs, Eszy and Simba XX
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Post by Susan on Aug 5, 2009 0:10:45 GMT 1
I cant add anything except thinking of you wishing for slow steady recovery and back all what others say.. speak to the God of knowledge on metabolic issues.. Jackie is good.. and let us all know updates
Bl****** Laminitus..
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Post by anastasia55555 on Aug 5, 2009 1:12:04 GMT 1
Laminitis has struck so many at our yard this year. its an ex dairy farm, so u can imagine the grass, but after 10 yrs post cows its prob not as good as it was at its prime, and normally it gets so muddy in winter, does grow back in spring but not 110% top quality and by the summer its burnt out and not growing. This year, it is growing constantly and better than ever. It has caught so many people out. Saxon was in lami hell last summer, and we are doing everything we possibly can to monitor him to keep it well away. I feel so sorry to owners and horses who are suffering, unfortuantly i just dont think there is enough info, and advice out there for horse owners. Lami was something i didnt really know much about until about a year ago, and i have been riding for around 8 yrs and owned for around 4-5 yrs. I think that the fat fighters posts are great, and i hope it continues as it will be a great source of information for everyone. Shadowofachance, everyone has their fingers and toes crossed for you x
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Aug 5, 2009 15:02:53 GMT 1
Hi Charlotte, I am so sorry you are having such a miserable time.
I will email you my diet sheet for future reference, but right now I would stick to soaked hay and unmollased beetpulp to get her supplements in. Nothing wrong with a Laminshield lick but it will not get enough Mg in each day so I recommend straight magnesium oxide. I also have a new metabolic supplement which contains a full dose of magnesium and lots of other goodies like antioxidants and chinese herbs, so that might be easiest for you. I would feed it alongside a good mineral supplement like TopSpec comprehensive, so don't be afraid to use enough unmolassed beet pulp to get that all in. Thanks goodness you are giving more hay now - I would never, ever advise reducing her to one section ever again, let her eat plenty of soaked hay to keep her as unstressed as possible!!
You can test the sugar level of hay with D&H for £5.00, it might be best to check it is below 10% if you have a constant source. If it is very low sugar it would not be necessary to soak it.
But most important of all I would want her blood tested to find out if there is anything hormonal driving this continued rotation ie insulin resistance or some kind of Cushing's - whatever - there are several drugs that can be used to treat her if so, and she may need them to stabilise her.
Speak to your vet and if he is not willing to test immediately and treat if indicated then I would go to another vet. The drugs you need to know they are willing to prescribe if need be are Metformin, Metyrapone, Trilostane and Pergolide.
HTH
Jackie
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Sam C
Olympic Poster
Posts: 737
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Post by Sam C on Aug 5, 2009 15:17:05 GMT 1
They charged me £7.50 last time - have you had anything tested by them recently Jackie, because if so I want my £2.50 back, LOL! I suppose it's still good value but I should be on a bl00dy loyalty card scheme or something by now, the money they have had off me! The new supplement looks great and very cost effective.
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Post by anastasia55555 on Aug 5, 2009 15:24:50 GMT 1
what is the recommened limit for sugar % in hay for a lamanitic/post lamanitic?? I may consider giving the test a go, and see what result i get back. never used a service like that before
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dptc
Olympic Poster
Posts: 557
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Post by dptc on Aug 5, 2009 15:45:53 GMT 1
Hi
I’ve not read all the replies on here but thing they generally suggest the same thing of getting a second opinion from another vet and farrier/podiatrist. The rotation is bad and you need to do all you can and if in doubt follow your gut, there are so many differing opinions on laminitis and recovery and some will work better for others. And if you get a farrier or vet stuck in their ways it can sometimes really hold you back.
My mare suffered laminitis in January and is now back out 24/7 and being ridden, she suffered slight rotation, but nothing like yours.
I wrote a blog which contains everything I found out along the way and how Lily progressed and how I felt so feel free to have a read of it you might find some of it useful, it includes info on feeding and management.
Good luck, thinking of you I know how stressful, upsetting and physically and emotionally draining laminitis is xxx
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Post by mandal on Aug 5, 2009 18:07:17 GMT 1
what is the recommened limit for sugar % in hay for a lamanitic/post lamanitic?? I may consider giving the test a go, and see what result i get back. never used a service like that before I believe less than 10% NSC (non structural carbohydrate) is recommened for laminitis, so 10% would be the absolute max. Here's alink to Katy Watts's site about grass and hay. www.safergrass.org/
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Post by anastasia55555 on Aug 5, 2009 18:13:05 GMT 1
lovely thanks, will have a read shortly :-)
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Post by shirecross on Aug 5, 2009 18:58:17 GMT 1
I lost my lovely 5 year old mare to laminitis and looking back I think I made her suffer unnecessarily. Her pedal bone had dropped. I asked for my vet to send the x-rays to Robert Eustace and he told us to bring her to him straight away or put her down. We took her on a 4 hour journey and he operated on her next day. I know he did his best and after a month we got the phone call I dreaded and she was put to sleep that day. Don't let your horse suffer if there is no hope. Love, hugs and kisses to you, I am still shedding tears for the loss of my lovely mare.
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Jane
Olympic Poster
Colo ("koala")
Posts: 938
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Post by Jane on Aug 5, 2009 22:55:44 GMT 1
Oh shirecross, do not hammer yourself over trying to keep her alive. The condition is terrible and frightening. We do all we can to make the right decisions at a time of huge stress. Often they are the right decisions, sometimes things go the other way. I am sure Robert Eustace would not have kept her going for another month if there had been no chance for her.
I also suffered guilt with the loss of my welshie to laminitis after a terrible 6 weeks. I am sure that, like me, you poured everything you were capable of giving at that time into saving your horse's life - that is nothing to feel bad about in that.
But this thread is about supporting someone else as they go through this, so it's important to support SoaC in whatever decision she makes.
xx
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Post by mandal on Aug 6, 2009 8:14:48 GMT 1
Sending strength and good vibes and wishes that your mare turns the corner and recovery starts. (((hugs)))
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Sam C
Olympic Poster
Posts: 737
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Post by Sam C on Aug 8, 2009 13:47:24 GMT 1
Just popping in to see if there's any news? Have you had the latest x-rays back yet? Hope you're both coping ok. x
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