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Post by mymenagerie on Mar 31, 2008 18:09:14 GMT 1
Message from Janet George:
I have heard directly from donors of just over £500 of the £730 collected. All these donors have stated that they would like their donations to go to EMW for the Round Pen appeal - some suggesting/requesting a suitable plaque remembering Maggie. Two of the larger donors have specifically requested that their donation does NOT go to any other cause.
I have real names (but no addresses) for the donors of most of the balance - there were also a few small anonymous cash donations. If anyone has NOT notified me of their wishes, would they please e-mail me - janetgeorge@saddle-up.org.uk - and tell me their real name, the amount they donated and their wish for its future use.
Re: Maggie's Law.
TBH, this idea is hopelessly naive. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 (in accordance with which Maggie's attackers were prosecuted) only came into effect in April 2007. There is no WAY the Government will consider any amendment/strengthening of this law in the next 5 years (at least!) To do so would be to admit they got it wrong! And even if they accepted that, DEFRA is already pushing promised legislation (including important changes to the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 promised for THIS year) back to 2010 or later.
The RSPCA, ILPH, Blue Cross, and a plethora of other organisations are already involved in lobbying Government for further improvements and changes to animal welfare law. To add another ad hoc under-funded group to the equation with a 'single-issue' message would be unhelpful and could even give Government an excuse to do nothing. The animal welfare charities work together - the equine charities through NEWC as well as their own established contacts - and can achieve FAR more in this way than well-meaning amateurs. Those who wish to see further improvements in the Animal Welfare Act would be FAR better advised to get involved with the established lobbying groups.
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Post by mymenagerie on Mar 31, 2008 18:22:59 GMT 1
I dont think anyone is asking for the money to be "sat in a pot" till eternity mymenagerie! If money has been collected for a particular cause and then that money isnt needed perhaps it would have been nice to be consulted as to where it is then going to go? Seems to me that decisions have already been made by some of the contributors and im sure you can understand that we dont all think the same and are entitled to an opinion as to where it will end up? It may also have been polite for the total amount raised to have been posted on here without having to ask? I know that EMW (like many other charities) do a stirling job, the VHS for example, the ilph, the Brooke to name but a few, that doesnt mean the money should automatically go to any of them really does it? From little acorns Great Oaks grow and Magnum has already made a really good suggestion that could maybe start something that would put the money to good use long term? I really hope that the comment made about people sitting behind their desks tapping at the keys isnt directed at CD? She may not like me to say this but she has raised tens of thousands of pounds for animal charities over the years, she has done many things to help animals over and above what many many people would do and she is still doing that. eileen x you know what.....  yes that is exactly what folks are saying, to stash it 'just in case' afraid nobody as yet has mentioned any time frame have they especially about CD raising money, errr chanellie has raised thousands herself, but didn't stop someone nastily insinuating at her did it  grow up I think would be a good theme here and a good thinking about how this money can be better put to use as it's original intention has so obviously not happened, emw get mine, whatever anyone else does as you say...is their entitled opinion |
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Post by crinks on Mar 31, 2008 18:38:27 GMT 1
Sorry my menagerie I am going to take issue with you on this one. 'Well meaning amateurs' is something I take great exception to.................. as someone who has run political campaigns and is an experienced lobbyist of MPs and a very experienced political activist I think I might be in a better position than you to voice an opinion on what needs to be done and how hard it is to do it.
The RSPCA are all well and good but sometime (as has been proved in the past) they are not very effective, its ok if its a high profile rescue or prosecution but for the private individual they are sometimes worse than useless. DEFRA I have dealings with on a daily basis, and again very well and good if they need something from you but the other way round then you can virtually forget it. Brooke hospital, ILPH and HAPPA I have nothing but admiration for as they do a far better job than most realise.
To get this changed I have suggested that a seeking a judical review is the best route to take, anyone in the land can ask for this to be done, it does not require any backing from Mps to do so and they can and have been granted to 'well meaning amateurs' before.
On the subject of the funds that Janet is holding then of course those who have donated are free to deem where they eventually end up, but as they were originally intended for a reward for information leading to an arrest, then maybe they should be used for something more lasting and more concrete than a plaque on a wall.
And can I remind you as well that Sarah Paynes mother got Sarahs Law passed and she was possibly the most 'well meaning amateur' of all of us!
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Post by Ally S on Mar 31, 2008 18:45:01 GMT 1
Just my thoughts. This money was raised for justice for Maggie. Most people who contributed probably did so not only because of what happened to Maggie, but because of the understandable grief it caused Davina and wanted to help in any way they could. I think Davina should have the final say. I agree with Varkie that this thread has really nasty undertones.
My thoughts and best wishes to Davina.
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madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
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Post by madmare1 on Mar 31, 2008 22:37:33 GMT 1
Davina WILL have the final say!
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Post by circusdancer on Mar 31, 2008 22:50:23 GMT 1
Well one thing I am now certain of, due to this debacle, is that the future reward (or any other) appeal should have no one single person in charge of holding the funds, as was suggested earlier on in the thread. If there are several people who are appointed, they should be impartial, rather than anyone hand in hand with a particular charity. We’ve certainly lost control of this one and it rather feels like some of us are being dictated to in this situation, so I would hope that we could avoid this in future. If an appeal is started on the IHDG, holding of funds should stay here (that will take some thinking through).
Perhaps my posts haven’t been as rational as they should have been in the circumstances but, I’ll reiterate, I didn’t receive a reply to my email of several weeks ago so, naturally, I have become suspicious, given the rumblings about the fund being donated to charity, without any consultation on the IHDG, especially as it was generated from here. A simple acknowledgment would have given me some comfort that the IHDG members’ opinions were being taken into consideration.
Chanellie, my quote of your post was a knee jerk response that, as I said, I was going to ignore, but I let my frustration get the better of me. After I’d read your post on another forum, that the only reason you come onto the IHDG is to raise funds for EMW, I was a little tetchy, because there are two official IHDG charities on here this year that only get one year’s shot! EMW had the sole official IH charity appeal status last year so it seems pretty unfair, in my opinion, that they were seemingly disregarded.
However, I’m sorry to have jumped on your post in that way when you’ve done such a great job of raising thousands for charity, I know only too well how much time and effort that takes and I’m sorry if has caused you personal offence.
So, maybe we should all just put this down to bad experience, learn from it and move on. I don’t know how the Maggie appeal monies are going to be sorted out now. Quite frankly, I’m worn out with it, it’s left a nasty taste in my mouth because of the “them and us” situation (which I‘m inclined to think has very little to do with Maggie’s reward money), so I’ll just take a refund, without being told my time is being wasted - that’s MY choice Janet, but thank you for the advice to sit back and do naff all because that’s the way it is!
It’s all very sad because I imagine this rather taints the support that Davina has received so far. I’m only sorry Davina has read this and I hope that my comments haven’t caused her any offence and further hurt. If you’re reading this now Davina, I’m so, so very sorry.
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Post by eileen on Mar 31, 2008 23:06:49 GMT 1
CD WHEN we get Maggies law passed it will make all this worthwhile, this is just the beginning and i know we can do it with crinks help and knowledge. I too am sorry that Davina has seen this as the DG is a wonderful supportive informative site that has helped so many of us through the years. It only ever takes one bad apple sometimes for things to take a turn for the worse but im sure we can ALL rise above this blip and do something fantastic for that beautiful girl Maggie and her lovely caring owner Davina. After all, that was the whole point of this thread before it turned into personal insults and downright nastiness. Maybe we can all take a deep breath and remember that Davina has lost something so precious to her and im sure not one of us would care to be in her position ever in our life times ? CD you are a lovely kind warm generous person and you dont have anything to apologise for, its your absolute determination to protect and love ALL animals that makes you fight for their rights and makes you who are and i couldnt wish for a better friend than you :-) eileen xx
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Post by autonomy on Mar 31, 2008 23:21:19 GMT 1
Legally the donations belong to the people who have donated them as the purpose for which they have been donated has not been fulfilled. Therefore the ultimate say goes to the people who sent funds.
So the holder of the fund JG has quite appropriately offered refunds or asked people to let her know what they want done with the funds - all this is correct procedure and I cannot see that JG has acted incorrectly.
"I have heard directly from donors of just over £500 of the £730 collected. All these donors have stated that they would like their donations to go to EMW for the Round Pen appeal - some suggesting/requesting a suitable plaque remembering Maggie. Two of the larger donors have specifically requested that their donation does NOT go to any other cause.
I have real names (but no addresses) for the donors of most of the balance - there were also a few small anonymous cash donations. If anyone has NOT notified me of their wishes, would they please e-mail me - janetgeorge@saddle-up.org.uk - and tell me their real name, the amount they donated and their wish for its future use"
She has also said if anyone wants their money refunding to confirm their real name etc as many people didn't mark their donations in a way which was easily identifiable - there were two forums taking part.
I suggest the way forward is for those who wish their donation to go to a certain charity or to be refunded to let Janet know so that she send the funds on to the charities of choice or return them to the original donor.
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Post by crinks on Mar 31, 2008 23:28:07 GMT 1
OK deep breath here.
Right he moeny that was raised can either legally be returned to those that want it back and the remainder can donate to EMW.................. which is a very worthwhile and sometimes thankless task.
However can I just remind folks that 1) the money was intended as a reward. 2) how very upset and mortified Davina must be feeling at the moment and 3) no one and I mean no one has the right to tell me that something cannot be done.............. cannot is a word that does not appear in my vocabulary!
Maybe it might be a good idea to have separate site for this campaign and then we can plan strategies away from here and not upset the folks who do not want to be involved
Just a few thoughts
CD we can and will win, it migh take us years but we will do what we set out to do don't give up on his idea before we get it going. I will give all the help I can of course as I said cannot does not even exist in my book!
For those interested can I just point outthat i worked for 2 years as an intern in America helping to get a president elected have conducted political campiagns at home as well, helped co-ordinate the Liberty and Livlihood marches and the beacons as well, took on the deputy PMs office during the boundary reshuffles and the local rival council as well for the same thing, sit on the parish council and have just been one of those who have helped take the local council house stock from council hands to that of a housng association.............. not that bad for an 'amateur'
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Mar 31, 2008 23:33:48 GMT 1
It would seem sensible therefore that those who wish their money refunded contact JG with their details proper names, amounts of money and how they paid and then they can give it to whoever they want or for what ever they wish to support. That way any money sent to whichever charity will do so with the blessing of the donors and those that wish to have a refund will get it quickly and efficiently. Without your details no one can sort this out.
For Davina's sake it would be best if arguments such as there are were held privately and by e-mail or pm where appropriate. Bless you Davina it must have been awful and verys tressful for you.
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Post by Lorraine L on Mar 31, 2008 23:33:55 GMT 1
Crinks, it will be achieved, because we have people who care passionately and will not sit back and wait for someone else to take it on.
With the people who are already logged on to the new campaign site, we are at least making a start.
x
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Post by Lorraine L on Mar 31, 2008 23:36:42 GMT 1
PS. If there is anyone who wishes to get involved in the campaign, please PM me for the site details
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MAGNUM
Advanced Poster
Posts: 305
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Post by MAGNUM on Apr 1, 2008 0:01:44 GMT 1
I have sat and read the comments re;money. Indian giver's come to mind.  Why put your hand in your pockets in the first place?then change your mind after the event. Can the mods please post why Janet George was kicked off the D.G.  I WILL MATCH ANY MONIES TAKEN BACK BY YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE AS I SAY ARE ''INDIAN GIVERS'' MY WORD IS MY BOND!!!!!!!!!!!  NOW TAKE YOUR MONEY AND RUN ALONG BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM.  LONG LIVE MAGIES NAME  MAGNUM |
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Post by crinks on Apr 1, 2008 0:14:34 GMT 1
Magnum what a very generous gesture
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Post by circusdancer on Apr 1, 2008 0:22:28 GMT 1
So the holder of the fund JG has quite appropriately offered refunds or asked people to let her know what they want done with the funds - all this is correct procedure and I cannot see that JG has acted incorrectly. As I see it, what happened, was an ex-member, banned from this forum, suggested to the members of her own forum that the money was donated to the charity that has been supported on that forum for however long (years from what I can see) and the sheep said baah! Subliminal? Perhaps.  |
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yes that is exactly what folks are saying, to stash it 'just in case' afraid nobody as yet has mentioned any time frame have they 
