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Post by troop on Jul 15, 2007 20:40:23 GMT 1
hi sorry i can see you are much in demand. my cob just came down with mild laminitis.he has a laminitic pony as a companion. both live on fresh air they have grazing (not lush or large paddocks),happy hoof one handful for pony 2 for horse,hay/lage in winter adlib.i recently started giving them horslyx which seemed fine until my horse ate half a tub in one night. beleive this is what triggered lami.i have bought them off the grazing although didnt think this neccassary and am feeding soaked hay smallest amount of happy hoof so he gets his bute rations.what is a good mineral/vit supplement to give? can i keep feeding happy hoof?and i never heard of wormers causing problems before.
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 16, 2007 10:56:24 GMT 1
Hi Troop, so sorry your cob has laminitis. Please, please be aware everyone - some of these licks contain a huge amount of sugar from molasses, or even worse glucose, and could easily precipitate laminitis in an insulin resistant horse (which you may not realise is insulin resistant).
The most suitable supplement IMO is TopSpec Comprehensive. To that I would add two 1000iu natural source Vitamin E gelcaps a day (from a chemist or Holland and Barret) and some magnesium oxide. Happy Hoof should be fine - I prefer Hi-Fi Lite myself, but people often say their horses do better on one or the other so I don't think there is any guarantee which will suit better. Unmolassed beet pulp is probably the safest bet for a supplement carrier.
Worming can cause problems, but I think only when the horse is 'on edge' for other reasons - like Equine Metabolic Syndrome.
Jackie
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Post by annabelle h on Jul 16, 2007 16:23:15 GMT 1
Hi Jackie,
I hope you and horses are doing well, and thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Wanted to ask you if you had come across horses getting very filled hinds due to a change of protein levels in the grass? A client's horse developed this on Friday, 2 days after moving to a different field, and a couple of people have mentioned that they have known this to happen from change of grass. Wondered if you had any further info on this.
The mare was also a bit footy, more so on Saturday, and the swollen legs were more tender then too. I think she had a touch of laminitis as well as the swelling, (although the vet didn't reckon so, but didn't have any other ideas either!) so we are treating her for lami - I am about to send you an order for some Magox and Yea-sacc! The legs had gone down quite a bit yesterday, although digital pulses were stronger. :-(
Sounds like TopSpec Comprehensive might be a good idea too? Unfortunately the livery staff wormed her yesterday :-( so going to make a special trip to check on her, just in case.
Btw are you coming to the Natural Horse Gathering? Haven't seen you for ages. Craig is stil going strong. :-)
Take care, Annabelle (running to catch the post)
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 17, 2007 11:24:50 GMT 1
Hi Annabelle, the horses are fine thanks, as long as I don't want to do anything ridiculous like actually ride one.............
Anyway, yes, filled legs are commonly associated with sensitvity reactions to, or excess protein in the diet. Some perfectly healthy horses legs will blow up if there's just a bit too much clover in their hay for instance.
It is sometimes associated with laminitis, but I would guess for slightly different reasons usually - ie a metabolic dysfunction at the root of both. Horses with hypothyroidism and Cushing's can be quite susceptable to oedema of all sorts, in fact 'congestion' in general. Anything that reduces circulation can be the straw that breaks the horses back in terms of laminitis. We always get one or two Cushing's cases having problems in a cold snap in winter, just because of the reduction in blood flow into cold extremities.
An Ayurvedic liver tonic such as Restore might help with the congestion, and yes, a good broad spectrum supplement is always a good idea IMO.
Cheers
Jackie
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Post by mandal on Jul 17, 2007 12:15:46 GMT 1
A belated thankyou jackie for your reply to my question.
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Post by annabelle h on Jul 17, 2007 12:55:40 GMT 1
Thank you Jackie, that is reassuring. Will suggest the Restore and TopSpec Comp. Have a horrible feeling I didn't sign the cheque I sent you yesterday .. . durr - let me know if not. Take care, Ananbelle
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Post by chrissiew on Jul 17, 2007 14:49:36 GMT 1
Glad I'm not the only one that does that to Jackie.....!! On the filled legs front - Jackie recommended I put my mare on Restore (she has it twice a year anyway, but not normally this time of the year) for filled legs (posted about earlier on this thread) and it seems to be doing the trick. Her legs have been fine for the last week now, although she has been out in the field much more too which has also helped (touch wood with no footiness from the increased grass intake).
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Post by runner on Jul 17, 2007 14:58:09 GMT 1
Hi, I have an issue with my horse and travelling, I'll try and explain without going on and on!
Runner is a 17hh dutch warmblood, 9years of age, who I have had since he was 3 and a half. He has always travelled and up until last year always travelled well, he has been in the same lorry pretty much always but last year we went on a slightly longer journey and it was a very hot day, byt the time we got to the comp and unloaded Runner had colic like symptoms, I called the vet as he has never had anything like this but by the time the vet got back to me he had got over it.
He has only actually had the symptoms about 3 times but that's more than enough for me! I like competeing but my horse comes first, we have travelled without the stress the other end but I have resorted to rescue remedy as I didn't know what else to do, this seems to have worked but I was wondering whether there might be something I could feed or just to look at his diet which might help.
I now have my own trailer as the lorry i was using is being sold, he has onyl been in it once as i am reliant on my boyfriend to drive us until I can get the insurance sorted, I will do lots of practice with him loading and just going for a very short drive etc but i wondered if you might have any advise.
He is fed 1lb of spillars high fibre cubes with a handful of dengi, benevit, Mag ox and cortaflex once a day, he is a very very good doer to can't feed much! he is on grass at night with a muzzle and in during the day with a section of hay, I know it sounds cruel but it's less cruel than putting pressure on his joints cause he is over weight.
Generally he is very chilled and relaxed.
Really really hope you might have some ideas! Sorry I have gone on a bit!
King regards Caroline
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helly
Novice Poster
Posts: 16
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Post by helly on Jul 18, 2007 11:20:54 GMT 1
Hello Jackie,
I have a horse with a very poor appetite and wondered if you were able to help please.
He is a 14.3, 5 .yo Andalusian gelding (he was a stallion up until 2 1/2 weeks ago). He was imported from Spain about 3 months ago and I have had him for about 10 weeks.
He is bright, energetic and has a beautiful coat but is somewhat under weight. I currently feed him 1 x large scoop of Top Spec Cool Condition cubes, 3/4 x scoop of Alfa A Lite, 3/4 scoop of unmolassed sugar beet and a good dollop of Omega oil 3 times a day as well as 500g of Top Spec Comprehensive feed balancer once a day. He also has a salt lick in his stable.
A lot of his food ends up strewn on the stable floor after he has picked at it. He is very fussy with hay only eating about 1 wedge through the night and he refuses to eat haylage at all. He is out grazing for about 10 - 12 hrs in the day but again he spends a lot of time looking around instead of actually eating.
Although he is on post operative rest at the moment his appetite does not improve when he is in work.
Is there anything I can feed him to enhance his appetite. Pink powder has been suggested to me....what do you think.
Any advice gratefully received. Many thanks.
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 18, 2007 12:17:47 GMT 1
Helly, Is there any reason he could not stay out 24/7 until winter?? Might he just really need to chill out for a good long period?? It sounds like he must have been through some major stresses recently.
You mentioned in your email that his droppings did not smell too good, so I have to recommend making sure he is thoroughly and effectively worrmed by doing a count and possibly a blood test for tapeworm.
I would definately put him on Yea-Sacc if you have not done so already. You could give him one short course of probiotics as well to start with, literally 10 days only, to cover him just in case he has any rise in pathogen numbers in the foregut. But then I would stick with YS alone which will gradually change his gut flora balance to a more favourable one. > > I have been told that feeding a fussy eater Pink powder helps but as yet > haven't tried it.
Pink powder is based on a dead yeast, so I would stick with Yea-Sacc which is live and therefore remains metabolically active and secreting short chain lipids and peptides which stimulate the most beneficial bacteria. Dead yeasts are purely nutritional.
The other thing I would do is test him on an antacid in case the stress has given him gastritis or gastric ulcers. I do a very pure liquid version which you can actually syringe in if they are not eating. Mineral antacids usually get the largest response if this is a problem, but there are various other bits and pieces you can use to help - Aloe vera, licorice, neem leaf or slippery elm.
Again turning out to grass 24/7 is a pretty good cure, but IME some horses need further help, either longterm antacids and herbals, or if they help but are not enough, then ultimately drug treatment.
You could try other sources of forage/fibre too - Hi Fi Senior springs to mind, Readigrass or even Alfalfa hay perhaps. I would leave them separate in a bucket so you can guage if there's any one thing he likes. I would soak up all his pellets too - if he does have gastric problems, pelleted feeds can exacerbate this.
HTH
Jackie
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 18, 2007 12:28:26 GMT 1
Caroline, his diet seems fine, but i would try to make sure he never goes more than about 6 hours without something to eat. If by 'in all day' you meant 8 or 10 hours without eating, I think that might be asking for gastric ulcers.
Again, the only thing I would add there is Yea-Sacc to get his gut as stable as it can be made. And you could always use something like valerian or tryptophan before travelling to try and sedate him a little.
But I think it may boil down to training and practice, maybe short trips to non-stressful places too. Do give him full width, some horses like to spread their legs and steady themselves, and make sure your floor is really good - the last horse I knew that developed a problem with travelling turned out, quite rightly, to be worried about a rotten floor!!
Jackie
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Post by runner on Jul 19, 2007 12:57:51 GMT 1
Hi Jackie, thanks ever so much for you reply it has been really useful.
I have started giving him a second haynet for others on the yard to pur in during the day just to make sure he has access to food as much as possible but not too much food! He doesn't always eat all the hay during the day as he does seem to stuff at night and enjoy sleeping through the day, but had already thought about making sure he does have access to food all day.
I have also looked into the Yea Sacc supplements, D&H do one which I can get hold of very easily, do you recommend this one? Dengi seem to do one and also Saracen but I want something asap to get it into his system.
Many Thanks Caroline
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Post by runner on Jul 19, 2007 13:00:22 GMT 1
Hi sorry can I also ask if the Valerian and tryptophan you have suggested are ok to use if going to a competition? I want to practice inthe trailer as much as possible but until i get my own vehicle to tow with this is very difficult so am wondering whether this might be an option in the short term?
Again many thanks, your help and advise is much appreciated.
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 19, 2007 17:26:47 GMT 1
Dengie/D&H and my Yea-Sacc are all exactly the same, the genuine Alltech equine product. Nothing else should be using the name Yea-Sacc. Email me on 2007@MetabolicHorse.co.uk if you want my pricelist, I have heard some people are paying nearly double.
Runner, I'm not sure if Valerian is allowed - you'd have to check with your ruling authority. I'm sure they would not be able to detect it, but under eg racing rules, anything that sedates would be considered 'a forbidden substance' even if it is undetectable. I don't see how anyone could ban Tryptophan because it is a naturally occuring amino acid.
Jackie
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naria
Grand Prix Poster
yet when all books have been read it boils down to the horse, his human & what goes on between them
Posts: 1,455
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Post by naria on Jul 19, 2007 20:34:22 GMT 1
Runner valerian is banned for competition
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