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Post by june on Jul 20, 2007 17:25:33 GMT 1
Just wondering if you can think of anything nutrition related that would cause feet to look like this? Out of our 26 BF polo ponies I have about 10 that are struggling this year with cracking and chipping. I can't find a common theme! All the horses are out 24/7, all in work, all fed Top Spec Balancer at the recommended amount, 1 scoop of Alfa A Lite, 1 tablespoon of salt and half a cup of Simple Systems Linseed. The worst ones are in paddocks with grass that was supposedly low sugar and was seeded 2 years ago so I'm suspicious that it isn't as low in sugar as I was led to believe! Both pictures were taken just before a trim which was at 5 weeks from the previous trim although 2 weeks later the first horse looked pretty much the same as this again.
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 20, 2007 20:37:25 GMT 1
I assume you have some kind of disinfection protocol going June?? If not I know of a product which might be of use day to day.
It has been exceptionally wet this summer, but if I were you I would get your grazing analysed and see what the mineral balance is like. TopSpec is usually a good bet, but with 26 horses, you might as well know for sure exactly what they do need - there may be something grossly deficient, or in excess, that needs specific balancing.
Meanwhile, I'd be interested to hear if putting half of them on supplementary magnesium yielded any obvious benefit. It does seem to be making far more of a difference to healthy feet that expected.
Jackie
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Post by june on Jul 20, 2007 22:44:22 GMT 1
Yes, I've been down the Cleantrax and Borax routes. Hydrogen Peroxide was considerably more effective than either of these last year although I know it is considered to be necrotising. Now I'm trying Golden Hoof which is used to treat sheep foot rot. This is a fairly new addition to the arsenal so we'll see how well it works! Always open to other ideas though. Cleantrax is such a performance and I'm not 100% convinced it works that well.
We did have our grazing analysed before we moved here and the two things that came out of that were that we were unusually high in calcium and low in selenium. I haven't had the grazing analysed on the new paddocks so that is probably worth doing. We only use those paddocks in summer.
I have 3 on magnesium and their hoof quality seems to be pretty good but they are on different grazing so too many variables there! I can certainly try some of the others on it and see if it makes a difference.
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 20, 2007 23:28:13 GMT 1
If you know you have low selenium I would add another 1-2mg a day somehow if you can. I am not convinced about Cleantrax and think it's too much palava too. I've been intending for some time to carry some Vetguard products, which are based on a totally effective (ie kills spores, sterilises in 20mins) but non-necrotising product (so safe in fact they nebulise with it, flush mares out etc.) Any equine vet should have access to it, a lot of them eg Rossdales are using the range and all the vet wholesalers carry it.
Jackie
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Post by june on Jul 21, 2007 12:26:56 GMT 1
Thanks for that Jackie. Will quiz my vet on the Vetguard products.
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 21, 2007 13:17:50 GMT 1
There's an alcohol hoof gel which is very effective for thrushy stuff and immediate control but would be too drying for this sort of hoof over time. It's the Pure Clinical you want for that. Let me know if you get stuck.
Jackie
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helly
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Post by helly on Jul 21, 2007 15:21:14 GMT 1
Hi Jackie,
Thank you for your help and advice.
Unfortunately I am unable to turn him out 24/7, but he is having a good long rest.
I have taken your advice in board and will have a worm count done to eliminate that and put him on Yea -Sacc.
Many thanks once again.
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Post by gem on Jul 23, 2007 13:39:27 GMT 1
Hi Jackie - Not sure if you can help but I was feeding Diesel yesterday and by the time he had finished eating he was covered in little bumps like an allergic reaction - it was all over his neck.
I wondered if that could be a reaction to his feed? He is on alpha which contains mollasses - my friend bought a different type to Normal but he's been eating it for about 3 weeks now with no obvious effects, with top spec
I dont know whether to chuck this chaff away and put him back on the alpha he was on before?
He is also starting to look a bit fat - Im really only feeding him the base amount of top spec and a small handful of alpha with it, the rest is grass - I dont want to cut out the top spec incase he needs something from the balancer
Is what he is on okay?
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em&ed
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If I had just a little humility, I'd be perfect....
Posts: 3,276
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Post by em&ed on Jul 23, 2007 15:41:49 GMT 1
Hi Jackie I would like to say a belated Thanks for your answer to my query about broad spectrum balancers - I was away for a week and didn't want to appear ignorant! emma
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 24, 2007 12:06:38 GMT 1
Hi Gem,
It's really hard to tell with allergies and I am no expert in that I am afraid - if you can go back to what you know he is fine with I would do that just in case. AntiLam has very few calories in it, so really the best thing to do to control weight is to restrict grass somehow. You might also try some form of magnesium in the diet - IMO the average good-doer will nearly always benefit from a top-up.
Jackie
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Post by gem on Jul 24, 2007 12:20:15 GMT 1
Thanks Jackie - will return to what hes used to then, thanks
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Post by indibindi on Jul 25, 2007 12:40:42 GMT 1
Hi Jackie - just incase my thread slips down - I am copying it on here:
Hi All
I have an ex Polo Pony in at the moment. She seems a bit run down. She's very itchy and she doesn't have much of a coat - she's been very clipped. She has plenty of weight on - but seems a bit run down, probably with all this weather. She was freshly hogged before she arrived so she has very little fly protection and seems to be getting a bit of a rain scaldy skin infection.
So, I've brought her in and I want to halt the decline before things get worse. She likes being in so she's not stressed at all.
I want to boost her immune system - any ideas?
I've had her shoes off and her feet are a bit of a mess - she was shod with hind shoes all round - any thoughts on anything to help her with foot growth? She's on Top Spec
Can you recommend a wash for her body? She has quite a few rubs from the polo tack and her skin is not in the best condition - it feels bumpy underneath the bit of fur she has?
She sounds like a wreck now! LOL
She's 18 by the way. I want to give her the equivilent of a weekend at a health spar - you know, hair, nails, good food and supplements?
Thanks
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pd
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Post by pd on Jul 25, 2007 14:41:58 GMT 1
Hi Jackie, Can you suggest something to give my horse more energy and shine to her coat?
Shes a 12yr 16.1 hh WarmBlood/TB type. Very good doer, is on very restricted grazing due to mild laminitis in May. Weight is coming down to near ideal and fitness levels increasing nicely. No signs of lammo prior or since May this year.
Daily feed is TopSpec AntiLam, Speedi-beet + MaxOx if needed (not regularly giving MagOx since she showed an allergic reaction after consistent feeding for a few weeks - small bumps on tendons). Plus a net of soaked hay at night when stabled.
She's just a tad lazy and lacks a high shine to her coat, but otherwise is in the best of health. What do you suggest I add to her feed (if anything) to meet these two needs?
Many thanks Tracey
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Jen
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Post by Jen on Jul 25, 2007 14:44:11 GMT 1
Hi Jackie, I have two horses with separate issues.
The first one is 14 and having owned for a year seem to have trouble getting weight on him. He lives out 24/7 on about three acres of reasonable pasture (shared with one other horse). He is fed the Top Spec Comprehensive Feed Balancer along with half a scoop of AlfaA Oil, and a scoop of Super Conditioning Flakes twice daily. In the evening he is getting about 4kg of haylage at the moment, but is fed according to weight / adlib in the non grazing months. I have been feeding him the Super Conditioning Flakes for about two months now, and it doesn't seem to be making any difference as you can still slightly see his ribs. Before the Super Conditioning Flakes I was feeding him a scoop of Super Barley Rings with additional oil (with the TS, and AlfaA) twice daily, but it didn't seem to have an effect either. I have tried upping quantities, but he is not really that food orientated so gets bored and just wonders off if I increase it anymore. He is a very calm and relaxed chap (although has attitude), so he's not worrying the weight off, and is only in light work. He is also barefoot, although transitioned really quickly and very well, and now has fabulous feet, although my EP did mention on his last trim that he may have suffered a slight attack of Laminitis due to the Periople growing a little strangely (my words not hers).
My other 25 year old horse is a good doer, heavy draught horse who has suffered with lameness on and off since being bullied by a farrier a few years back, having being 'swivelled' about all over the place to 'so called' make him behave. I am sure that his now lameness has stemmed from that, although know with any heavy horse he will more than likely suffer with his joints eventually. I feed him Top Spec and AlfaA oil as above, and add 5*Super flex to his feed. He seems to mange to kick his heels up and canter about in the field with his companion, but isn't sound. Again he is barefoot, and on the last trim, my trimmer said the same in relation to the Laminitis. He also started to develop Sweet Itch a few years ago, which he hadn't had in the first 10 years of me owning him... I don't know if that makes any difference? My main concern is to get to the bottom of his lameness without spending a fortune on vets fees and scans etc. I have thought that his lameness could be due to the fact that he isn't ridden out much so his feet aren't conditioned, so am looking into getting some boots to see if that makes him any happier. I'm in the process of adding Magnesium to both of the horses feed, but wondered if I should be going down the Laminitis management route, and if it is Laminitis whether the 5* superflex isn't helping as I believe it contains Glucosamine which if I've read correctly, isn't any good for horses with laminitis. I don't believe the 5* Superflex is actually helping him this time. I say this time, because it did make a difference a few years back when I first put him on it. Again he is also being fed a small amount of haylage in the evening currently, but has adlib access when the grazing isn't available.
I have also been using the Rockies for salt licks out in the field until swapping to the Himalayan Salt Lick, but notice that my younger horse still licks wood, usually following his feed. My older horse was eating droppings back at the start of the year too, which I don't think I've ever seen him do, but isn't doing currently.
Any advise would be appreciated.
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Post by JackieJATaylor on Jul 26, 2007 14:48:52 GMT 1
Smudge, I think for the immune system I would use the adaptogen Ashwaganda, probably after a course of a good Ayurvedic liver tonic. Ashwaganda is a sort of Indian version of Ginseng, and actually means something like 'the strength of ten horses'. So it does more than just boost the immune system - it is a general tonic as well.
I don't really know about the bodywash - the Vetguard shampoo would definately do the job of killing any fungal infection, but Robinsons' Active Wash might be better for irritated skin, I have found it very gentle for eg mudfever legs. I would definately put her on linseed for her skin condition though - either whole, micronised or cold-pressed oil.
If her feet are poor after a while on TopSpec I suspect you may have a microbial problem to deal with - the summer has been so wet this is a big problem this year. I would get a good hoof disinfection routine going and see if that helps. It sounds like a kilo of alfalfa would not go amiss either - that would supply some extra amino acids for both feet and skin.
pd, I would definately use linseed for the coat in your case too, but that may not help you in the oomph department. Firstly it may just be that as her diet has had her losing weight that when that is increased to a maintenance level her energy rises. But 'Laziness' is a difficult thing to diagnose over the net, as it could be anything from a training problem or lack of fitness, right up to a heavy dose of worms or a malfunctioning thyroid!! I am not really in favour of adding starchy feeds to give a horse energy from a sugar rush, so I make sure the diet is supplying sufficient nutrition to start with - vits, mins and protein. It could be you are a bit short of protein - you could change to TopSpec original or try swapping your Speedibeet for AlfaBeet or Alfalfa pellets. If that did not do the trick I would give a course of a good liver tonic and try one of the adaptogens, either Ashwaganda or JiaoGuLan, which are terrific energy boosters. If that did not do the trick I'd be asking my vet to start checking things out.
Jen, I think I would be asking my vet to have a look at the 14yo to be honest - good grass and high calorie food should have the desired effect in any healthy horse. You might try the low sugar/starch version of your diet first though - I would change to D&H ERS Pellets in a little Alfa-A Lite, and see if that makes any difference. ERS is a high calorie, high fat but low starch feed, so if it was starch/sugar that was causing him a problem, that might just do the trick.
I would certainly try managing the big guy for laminitis - if you email me on 2007@MetabolicHorse.co.uk I can send you a diet sheet. I would also consider Cushing's at his age - IME the vast majority of elderly horses have some degree of pituitary disruption. You might get your vet to run an insulin test on him - 9 times out of 10 laminitics have high insulin, so we know a horse with high insulin is likely to be at risk. The other way to be sure is to keep them off grass completely for a few weeks. If they come sound, low grade laminitis is likely to be your problem.
I would definately quit the Superflex for the time being too - I have a glucosamine-free joint supplement if you would like to try something different on him.
And I would add some loose salt to the bucket feed- IME horses often do not take enough if left to their own devises, and that is often to root of licking behaviour. Eating droppings is a tricky one - no-one really knows what causes that, but I usually try Yea-Sacc first or a short course of a combined probiotic/yeast supplement if that does not do the trick.
My goodnes, what a mouthful! I hope this helps everyone,
Jackie
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