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Post by sarahfox on Oct 10, 2007 15:28:45 GMT 1
Ok, with all the barefoot stuff going on I thought you would all appreciate another thread on the subject! ;D Correct me if I'm wrong here,but I understand that an EP charges around £40 per trim,also many barefooters either tidy up in between themselves or have the EP out every 4 weeks or so. My farrier charges £18 for a trim,which is usually done every 8 weeks or so,depending on the horse/time of year/whether worked etc,but an average would be 8 weeks,which means there would be more work to do than if it was 4 weeks or I tidied in between myself. Farriers spend far longer training for their job and also have far more subjects to cover,I'm not saying that many EPs may not be very good at what they do to,but the fact is it takes a lot longer to become a farrier and they also have a bigger initial outlay for their equipment. So WHY are EPs charging so much more???
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Post by smudge99 on Oct 10, 2007 15:32:14 GMT 1
The BF trimmer I use charges me plus 2 others on the yard £45 per trim. She does travel a bit to get here so assume that part of it is travelling costs. Not quite sure about the rest though so hopefully someone else can add some further info.
Liz
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Oct 10, 2007 15:34:46 GMT 1
i am interested in this also...having been looking into the subject recently. i am confused too! i have been told that the trims should be no different to a normal farriers trim and then i have been told by others that there is a difference! if there is no difference, i do not understand the hype behind the "barefoot" trimmers.
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Oct 10, 2007 15:35:33 GMT 1
omg £45 per trim! that is just so expensive! just for a trim aswell....? i dont get it.
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Post by Karon on Oct 10, 2007 15:37:17 GMT 1
For a start, farriers spend a lot of their training learning how to shape and fit shoes, not about foot balance and trimming. And, having seen the trim that one apprentice did on my horses, I'd guess that he hadn't paid attention during the lesson on actually trimming a hoof Nor the lesson about not belting a foal as hard as you can the second it fidgets My trimmer spends a lot longer on a trim than any farriers I've had out have done. She'll watch the horse moving, walk and trot, get information on workload, what I plan to do, what trmiming I've been doing etc. She'll give advice on conditioning and hoof care. She does an excellent job with difficult horses - both the one who had dodgy feet (Ash) and those who have been difficult to trim in the past (particularly Rash - the one the apprentice belted as a foal). Also, my trimmer gave me a massive amount of support and advice when Khafif had laminitis and was there when Khafif was PTS but the latter is, of course, above and beyond the call of a trimmer's duty! She even turned up just to help me change poultices when there was no trimming that could be done. Finally (for now she's a lot more patient than any farrier - there's no raised voices, no lost tempers, just quiet calm handling. It's a bonus that she taught me how to handle Rash properly after Rash had injured me and scared me quite a bit
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Post by Karon on Oct 10, 2007 15:38:45 GMT 1
Meant to add - I'd rather pay £40 per trim (whcih I don't anyway with Mel) and have a sound, happy horse that is easy to trim (I can trim mine while they are loose) than pay £15 or whatever the going rate is and have a foot sore horse that's scared of men.
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Oct 10, 2007 15:41:37 GMT 1
karen, your trimmer sounds lovely. i agree some farriers are very heavy handed, i hate that and wouldnt touch one with a barge pole (unless i was going to beat him with it!). i am lucky, all 3 of my horses are perfect for the farrier and my farrier is nice and quiet. he also spends alot more time than previous ones on mine. they are all barefoot, 2 retired and one ridden. no problems at all. i dont know what the benefit would be for my horses to have a barefoot trimmer?
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Post by melissa on Oct 10, 2007 15:42:43 GMT 1
agree karen but not all are like that. although i would sadly say the majority i know of are. always the men!
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Post by june on Oct 10, 2007 15:45:41 GMT 1
Ours used to be farrier trimmed and it used to take about 20 mins a horse. They are now EP trimmed and it takes about 45 minutes a horse. EPs provide advice on conditioning of feet, infection control, will often do reports on the feet, take photos, advise on diet, what work to do, what sort of surface to work on, whether to use pads etc. Most will walk the horse up before and after trims and check the gait so can help spot things going wrong before they go badly wrong, and that doesn't mean just with the feet. It is more like holistic horse care!
I'm absolutely not against farrier trims. We've had ours trimmed by farriers in the past but for various reasons we now use EPs. Probably the best trims they had were from a farrier who then retired, but the EPs are now doing an excellent job.
The horses will tell you if they are having problems with farriers or trimmers. If they are sound and happy to do the work you need them to do then the trim is working for them. If not then either the trim is too severe or the feet need more conditioning.
Most people know what a good foot should look like. If you sit down and draw a horse's foot from the underside, the front and the side you'll almost certainly draw a good foot. If your horses feet don't look like that then you should probably be asking why it doesn't and doing something about it.
Sorry, should probably have posted most of that on the "How do you know your farrier is good" thread!
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Post by sarahfox on Oct 10, 2007 15:49:31 GMT 1
I quite agree with you karon,I wouldnt let a farrier or anybody else like that near my horse! But it doesnt realy answer the question,the fact is that you had an a** of a farrier,my farrier looks at the whole horse and what work it is doing and how it moves too,he has the patience of a saint and certainly listened when they were lecturing on hoof shape/balance etc. The question is not why would you pay £40 to a decent EP rather than a cr** farrier,the question is why should they charge so much more for what,if you have a good farrier seems to be a smaller job? As I said on a previous post,my farrier recently trimmed the 3 french mares that were wild and petrified 8 weeks ago,I got them so they would pick their feet up for me first,but as they are also terrified of men,he had a hell of a job,took ages and never even raised his voice despite the sweat pouring off him. Is it all about people only finding cr** farriers then?
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Alrac
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Post by Alrac on Oct 10, 2007 15:54:49 GMT 1
My EP trimmer is worth the money 10 times over ! My horse is nearly 30 and has arthritis in his hinds, after years of being pulled around by impatient farriers he is now treated like the VIP that he is She spends ages doing short bursts and holding his feet as low as he likes (even though it looks damn uncomfortable for her) and always listening to what he has to say. She also does a wonderful job on his feet and happily spends ages chatting about his feet and diet and explaining stuff to me, then she takes photos of them all which she keeps on record and takes notes on his feet. She takes about 4 times longer than a farrier trim I reckon so I'd expect to pay more and do so happily, (I was also told that they balance to the internal foot which a farrier doesn't do, although that isn't really an issue for my boy as he has lovely feet and is retired). I'm sure there are great farriers out there who do great trims too, but I have never met anyone who treats my horse as well as my trimmer and for that reason alone she can have my £40 with absolute pleasure !
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Oct 10, 2007 16:00:10 GMT 1
Its because you're paying for all the advice on conditioning etc as well as the actual trim that its more expensive than a quick trim by a farrier. To be fair most EPs do spend a lot more time talking and giving advice as well as the actual trim, typical is about an hour. Lot of farriers will trim quickly and be done in 10-15 mins. I think they can charge £40 because its a service a lot of owners want and are willing to pay for which farriers aren't providing. If everyone could get the same thing from a farrier for £20 or less than barefooters would basically be out of business! If I could have got the same thing from a farrier for £20 then there's no way I'd have been handing over £40 every 4-6 weeks for it I think if you have a horse with hoof problems then £40 however often they need trimming is worth every penny if it sorts the feet out. But have to admit the tight g*t in me has been surfacing since fatty's trims have been nothing i can't do myself, quick run around with the rasp and a quick bit off the frogs and a form that basically says 'its sound, carry on' , so now only get her checked every 3 months. She has had a mild bout of laminitis over a year ago and has slight LGL tendancies so its worth it for me to get her checked occasionally to make sure I haven't missed anything.
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Post by bliss on Oct 10, 2007 16:00:36 GMT 1
It is as Karon says the time they put into a trim + travel costs, my farrier costs £20 and spends no more than 15 mins with my mare. We have 6 horses in total, one has front shoes on the other 5 are barefoot, he spends no more than 2 1/2 - 3 hrs with us and has several cups of coffee, while he has a rest. So in 3 hrs he earns mabye £150. An EP might be there 1 - 2 hrs depending on the horse, and if they've seen it before. So work for work my farrier costs me £50 an hr, an EP might cost me £25 - 45 an hr, it just takes them longer to do each horse, because of the assessing they do, to ensure a balanced hoof
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Post by amelia on Oct 10, 2007 16:03:05 GMT 1
You get what you pay for.
Thanks to my wonderful EP my yearling is an angel having his feet trimmed - he stands for 45 mins quite happily.
Sunny's feet have improved no end as well.
Mine are done every 6 to 7 weeks - whereas in shoes Sunny would need to be done every 4 - 5 weeks as her feet grew too quickly and obviously weren't wearing down like they do now.
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Post by horsiehelen on Oct 10, 2007 16:07:27 GMT 1
*raises hand and apologises for being a novice with so many questions* What is EP short for?
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