bliss
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Post by bliss on Oct 10, 2007 16:52:08 GMT 1
You dont qualify as an EP after just 5 days, that is just 1 course, you can continue to train to quailfy or just use the 5 days as a learning experience as a horse owner. I believe training to be an EP takes well over a yr, mabye 2 I dont know. with huge amounts of course work, training, study sessions, exams etc, so hr for hr they spend a vast amount of time more than a farrier assessing the physiology of the horse, and trimming. If someone gos out after a 5 day course and tries to trim hooves professionally they should be reported to the governing body of that association
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lizziee
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Post by lizziee on Oct 10, 2007 16:53:12 GMT 1
PS. The training to become a qualified EP is not a 5 day course........there is a 5 day course but it does not qualify you to work as a registered EP. Oh Ok. It's not made at all clear on the EPA website (where it looks like there's just the one KC Pierre course that's required). They should be more explicit about what EPs have to do to achieve their qualification and the level of skill/knowledge they need to attain, then some of us sceptics might be convinced
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Post by samamber on Oct 10, 2007 16:54:19 GMT 1
Just to give you an idea of the theoretical work that goes into EP training, here is what is on the curriculum for the Level 1 course run by KC: 1. Philosophies and Principles of Applied Equine Podiatry 2. Basic Anatomy of the Equine Foot and Lower Limb 3. The Suspension Theory of Hoof Dynamics 4. Functional Anatomy & Physiology of the Equine Foot 5. Defining Correct Structure and its Stimulus (Environment) Mid Term Exam 6. Defining the Five Dimensions of the HPT Method 7. The HPT Method 8. Tool Use within the Method 9. Advancing the Science 10. Addressing common foot problems Final Exam This is what level 2 covers, theoretically: www.equinepodiatry.net/Text_Files/Level_II_curriculum.pdfAnd they also have to do practical work, case studies, etc.
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Post by samamber on Oct 10, 2007 16:55:00 GMT 1
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Post by Susan on Oct 10, 2007 16:56:02 GMT 1
I bet if you asked a farrier the questions ref the 7 structures of the feet and to assess each part of these and them for performance and the work required to get fit for the purpose and fitness regime and then about treating desease and infections and cleantraxing they would have no idea.. and most KC trained EP/DAEP would see them under the table! Farrier simply do not get that training..but KC is hoping to change that and so is Epauk then the farriers need to re assess their true worth IMHO
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Post by indibindi on Oct 10, 2007 17:39:04 GMT 1
Are you trying to tell me Susan that farriers don't know the structure of the hoof?! Or how to treat absesses and infections? You're having a laugh. What do you think they learn about in their training? How to bend metal and hope they stick it on the shoe right? Why do vets consult with them then?
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Cheryl Walmsley
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Post by Cheryl Walmsley on Oct 10, 2007 17:39:36 GMT 1
My farrier only trims sherb every 12 weeks and charges me £20. His feet are excellent and he does work most days. A lot of people seem to have an issue with farriers because they are not patient enough but once again I will say that genuinely my farrier is a mysterious horse whispery type of farrier. He knew as soon as he looked at sherbert what he needed to do make friends with him and that he did. On one occasion sherb was really not in a making friends mood and the farrier calmly said that if he pushed it he would never be good for him again and he booked me in again a few weeks later. He did have a look at his feet and said they would be fine to wait. He didn't complain about losing the money. He does prefer to come when he is doing a set of shoes but would come if he wasn't, same as any business person really. I have met some bargy, shouty farriers and they have met the door shortly afterwards. I have also met farriers who make the horses feet look really pretty and the horse is footsore for a week afterwards, they to were shown the door. Until I have some sort of problem with my farrier I will not look back, what's the point? I've never met an EP and would suspect some are good and some bad. Just like anything else in life.
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Post by ellibell on Oct 10, 2007 19:08:38 GMT 1
My farrier comes every 8 weeks to trim my 6 ponies. He checks all their feet and trims accordingly. One 2yr old was wearing his feet naturally on the lane to the field so as and when he needs it he just shapes his feet.
I am lucky in that my farrier refuses to shoe my lot, he says they do not do enough work. He kept my pony going for 7 yrs with cushings/lami and refused to vet who wanted to nail shoes on him (we have since changes vets). He called in twice a week when my oldie had lami to keep an eye on his feet, at no extra cost. It costs me £18 per trim.
He never gets cross with my lot, even tho my cob refuses to hold his own weight up. He even told me off when I smacked my cob for sitting on him! ( he is really naughty for it, and has done it since 8months old! ) WHner my cob was 1st trimmed as a baby and he went thru a phase of throwing himself on the floor in a temper, he was always calm and just got on with it. Dont get me wrong, he will growl at them if they get too cocky, but soothe them if they are bothered.
We have had alot of chats about the barefoot movement and he thinks its all crazy, but also feels there are a lot of bad farriers out there, the same as EP's, there are good and bad. He has always said no foot is trimmed in the same way, you work with how the horse is built and how it moves and how the foot is shaped.
I am moving in the next year and will prob have to try to find another farrier and am dreading it as will be moving out of the area. Will be very sad to let this farrier go...
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lizziee
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Post by lizziee on Oct 10, 2007 19:13:50 GMT 1
Farrier simply do not get that training.. Really? So what exactly is the syllabus of the 23 week training course then? You obviously know exactly what subjects are covered to be able to comment so categorically.
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Post by sarahfox on Oct 10, 2007 19:27:06 GMT 1
susan, I'm sorry but I jave to agree with smudge there,my farrier would be shocked to hear that anybody thought he didnt know that sort of basic stuff!
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Post by iwillbuy on Oct 10, 2007 19:31:25 GMT 1
susan i have to agree i think you have got it wrong re-structures of the foot and limb i was at college with a trainee farrier and know how much they have to know and it is mind boggling
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Post by Catrin on Oct 10, 2007 19:35:05 GMT 1
An Equine Podiatrist needs to understand dietary and management requirements for the horse, farriers do not. Both need to learn about the anatomy and physiology of the horse.
The apprentice farrier attends college for 23 weeks, in two week or four week blocks over four years. So less than six weeks a year. The course helps students develop a detailed understanding in the following areas: production and modification of tools and shoes by forging; foot care, maintenance and shoeing; health, safety and security; small business management skills; Information Technology. One four week block is spent on acquiring and maintaining a van. If they have got the ECDL, they can miss the four week IT block. In practice only a few hours is spent on foot care.
I can see where they learn how to manage a business, but not where they learn to feed or manage a horse. This is a major factor in maintaining a healthy hoof.
The Equine Podiatrist may not seem to spend as much time learning about vans and H&S, but they spend an awful lot more learning about a horse. They spend an hour dealing with the horse and leave a written report which tells you in detail what each hoof is like and how to feed and turn out your horse. By comparison with a farrier trim, the time alone seems to justify a greater charge.
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Post by Catrin on Oct 10, 2007 19:39:22 GMT 1
Are you trying to tell me ... that farriers don't know the structure of the hoof?! Or how to treat absesses and infections? ...What do you think they learn about in their training? How to bend metal and hope they stick it on the shoe right? Why do vets consult with them then? According to the Worshipful Company of Farriers, you need to be an Associate to offer veterinary consultations. Yes, there is more time spent on the Farrier Diploma course learning about shoes than abscesses.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Oct 10, 2007 19:40:04 GMT 1
Totally agree with Smudge ------------------has anyone looked up the syllabus and course details involved in training a fully qualified Registered farrier Sorry, IMO you're being conned by these people. I've had my farrier for 16 years. He charges around £ 15 for a trim and sometimes less. Always watches them walk away from him before and after trimming, always takes care to make sure they are balanced ,and he had the skill, training, and knowledge to create an extension for one of my foal's foot which had started to go upright, rather than my having to send her to a hospital. I'll stick to a properly trained REGISTERED person who has recognised qualifications , thankyou very much
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Post by Louise C on Oct 10, 2007 19:48:48 GMT 1
Flynn has never been shod - I've had him for 7.5yrs now and he was 4 when I bought him and just broken. We spent the first few years with a farrier trim but then he did his tendon in and I learnt that one of the things that could cause tendon problems was an unbalanced foot - thus leading to an unbalanced horse. I wanted to do everything in my power to prevent that happening again so one of the things I did was get an EP in. The other reason I got an EP in was because every time I did more than a few minutes roadwork the farriers kept telling me that Flynn would need front shoes on - something I wanted to avoid. But he did keep wearing his front feet short.
Ever since I've had an EP I have done as much roadwork as I want - within reason - and it has never been an issue for his feet. So for me it's a saving of money as it would surely cost me more than £40 I pay for a trim and the hassle of having shoes on.
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