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Post by sarahfox on Oct 10, 2007 16:08:19 GMT 1
Equine Podiatrist,helen.
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Post by chrissiew on Oct 10, 2007 16:11:08 GMT 1
Rather the question should be why shouldn't they?! If the market forces allow them to charge that money, good on them. I would imagine anyone who runs their own business charges the maximum they can for the services they provide, its good business practice.
As for farriers, I think they are just behind the times personally. They traditionally charge low prices for trims because it was often on the back of shoeing other horses during the same visit. Many farriers round here won't "just" come out to trim one or even two horses if there isn't anything to shoe at the same time.
Sarah I think you are in a more unique position in that you have 40 odd horses for your farrier to do - nice little earner that one for him, so of course he is willing to do it.
I'm happy paying my DAEP the amount I pay, not just for the trim, but for the advice and the fact that he is constantly updating his knowledge.
Plus in my area there is only possibly two farriers I would let near my horse to trim her. One I used many years ago to shoe my old mare and he is soooooo unrealiable its untrue (we are talking days/weeks/months late for appointments!) and the other is completely overbooked and not taking clients.
I ditched my old farrier when I went barefoot because he wasn't interested in my business once I wasn't paying him £80 every 6 weeks for shoeing. Yes he only charged me a minimum amount to trim, but because of his lack of interest, he wasn't doing a good job. He didn't seem to "get" that I would happily pay more for a good job!
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Post by horsiehelen on Oct 10, 2007 16:11:21 GMT 1
thank you nicely.
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Post by cobloopy on Oct 10, 2007 16:11:53 GMT 1
equine podiatrist?
Not sure either helen. I don't understand 'how' the trims are so different. Could someone explain hoe EPs and farriers differ in how they trim?
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Post by scorpio on Oct 10, 2007 16:13:07 GMT 1
Personally I think that a lot of EPs are a total rip off - but I speak from having the advantage of a fantastic farrier who treats his barefoot clients with as much time and care as his shod ones. My three horses get trimmed every 12 weeks and their feet are perfect. Each trim costs £25 plus VAT. My neighbours horses were being EP trimmed at £60 per trim and she came back every TWO weeks ( ) because their feet were "so bad". I convinced her to try my farrier and the horse has never looked better or been more sound. IMO her EP is either incompetent or a crook. Every 2 weeks indeed!! I will always trust my horses feet with someone who has spent years and years training not someone who has been on a couple of courses. Sorry, unpopular opinion I'm sure but I feel so strongly that some people are being ripped off because 1) barefoot trimming is becoming "fashionable" and 2) people are being fed a load of hogwash when they are trying to the best for their horses and put their faith in so called experts.
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Post by Karon on Oct 10, 2007 16:23:41 GMT 1
Sarah F, unfortunately the farrier I used would only ever get the apprentices to do the trimming and the rather heavy handed attitude was common with everyone who worked with him I've seen it with other local farriers too which is why I'd be very careful of getting a farrier near my horses again. And I've also had the line where they can't come out just to do a few trims, I'd have to wait. Mel spends ages with me, she'd usually spend a good hour with Khafif and charge me no more than a farrier would have charged anyway - and she travels 90+ miles to me
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lizziee
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Post by lizziee on Oct 10, 2007 16:26:26 GMT 1
For a start, farriers spend a lot of their training learning how to shape and fit shoes, not about foot balance and trimming. I was under the impression that farriers spent a lot of their training learning about both. How long is the EP training course compared to the non-shoeing bit of farrier training course I wonder? According to the EPA site you only need to do a 5 day course to become an EP. Farriers have to do a 23 week course plus spend 4 years as an apprentice to a training farrier.
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Post by chrissiew on Oct 10, 2007 16:26:51 GMT 1
Congratulate yourself that you have a good farrier and keep hold of him. Many of us don't have access to that resource, so as in most market situations have to pay more for a valuable resource.
I have a friend who thought I was over paying when I started using an EP, her farrier charged peanuts to trim her boy. 9 months on and she is switching to my EP because her horse's feet aren't performing how they should and her farrier can't see it.
As for your neighbour's experience. Unfortunately just like farriers, there are probably a number of EPs/barefoot trimmers who aren't up to the job. Sadly that is the way of the world.
I do find your last paragraph rather patronising though. I am not one to follow anything "for fashion" or put blind "faith" and swallow someone's hogwash - quite the opposite in fact, I can be quite an old cynic. What I do appreciate is good service/superb experience and expertise and 1st class horse handling skills and support for what I want to do with my horse. Sadly I couldn't find a farrier that fitted the bill at the time, so I switched to my DAEP and haven't looked back.
As for the couple of courses comment - I won't dignify that with a response.
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Post by samamber on Oct 10, 2007 16:27:20 GMT 1
My horse is trimmed every 4 weeks and often my EP comes out in between times to tidy him up and doesn't charge me. The reason being is my horse has a *lot* of problems with his feet and after trying a number of different farriers I turned to barefoot and have never looked back.
If I left my lad 8 or even 12 weeks his feet would be in a right state. Even when shod he had to be done every 3 weeks because of the growth. It makes no difference if my horse is in work or not, he still cannot go that long without his feet being seen to.
EP's may not spend as long training initially as farriers although if you ever look at the amount of work the EPs have to do to qualify its not for the faint hearted. They also have to attend yearly training sessions and be assessed for competancy or they are removed from the list (KC trained EPs, I don't know much about the EPAUK and othe school but I would imagine its the same). I don't know of any farrier who does this.
I pay my EP £40 to trim my horse but he spends a lot longer than any farrier local to me would. The trim he does is not a bog standard trim, its not a pasture trim that many farriers do. It is a high performance trim that prepares the foot for work, not just for walking around a field. He will also be there to answer any questions I have, whenever I have them. Will come out if I'm worried and provides advice on all foot conditions, feeding, general management etc to ensure that my horse benefits 100% from the work he does.
Now I'm sure, as has been said many times, that there are good and bad on both sides and I'm also sure that there are a lot of open minded farriers who are able to perform a good barefoot trim but good EPs are not 'feeding people a load of hogwash' nor are they ripping people off.
I can't understand why people moan about paying EPs who, from my experience, provide a very good service. Ok they don't nail shoes onto the bottom of a hoof but they do as much work as a farrier.
Oh and my trimmer will charge £15 for a pasture trim should I need it - I had a small youngster who only needed a pasture trim because he was not in work.
Sorry but I've had enough of all this griping at EPs and farriers. You don't hear people moaning about spending £40 ona chiro, or a physio, or even on what some class as 'hippie' therapies such as reiki and bowen therapy. Or paying more for an EE or RWYM lesson than with a 'normal@ BHS instructor.
eta: Just so no one gets the wrong idea, I like reiki and bowen and don't think they are 'hippie' therapies.
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Post by cobloopy on Oct 10, 2007 16:34:24 GMT 1
I am finding this an interesting discussion as i'm thinking about letting my horse go barefoot. Everyone has their opinion so please let's not take this personally but keep the discussion going for those of us who would like to see both sides of the coin. xx
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Oct 10, 2007 16:36:51 GMT 1
EP training is something like 5x 5 day courses, homework, exams and trimming assesments and should take about a year. And that's just the basic course to deal with normalish feet, there's further training beyond that. £60 every two weeks?! There are times where making changes more gradually and trimming often is a good thing (trimming every 2 weeks helped Jay for a while when I got her but done by me for free!) but £60 for a trim! Shocking! But, trims every 12 weeks is way too far apart unless the feet are already good and they're doing enough work to keep themselves worn down. Somewhere between those is a good interval for most horses, like 4 weeks for the dodgy feet and 5-8 weeks for better ones, though some good hard working feet can get away with longer.
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Post by lolamae on Oct 10, 2007 16:39:47 GMT 1
Question, if I may please?
Does it usually take an EP over one hour to trim a horse? I have five horses.
I had a really bad experience with someone calling themselves an EP, he left my mare crippled and BLEEDING. He was hustled out of my barn, paid for the one horse he hadn't crippled and told never to come near again. I should have known, my dogs didn't like him to begin with.
I would be extremely suspicious of using one ever again. Which is exactly what people say about farriers too, it only takes one sour apple to spoil the basket sadly.
I have a lovely Farrier now who is happy to trim only.
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lizziee
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Post by lizziee on Oct 10, 2007 16:40:54 GMT 1
I just wonder how much an EP can learn about the physiology of a horse on a 5 day training course that makes them better at proscribing appropriate treatment than a farrier who goes on a 115 day course and works with a trainer day in day out for 4 years? Incidentally, farriers do have to undertake annual CPD now too. I'm not saying one is better than another (have no experience of an EP) I'm just interested as to me it seems common sense that the person who has the most extensive training is the person with the most knowledge and skill
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Alrac
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Post by Alrac on Oct 10, 2007 16:45:50 GMT 1
I did a LOT of research before I took my horse barefoot, even though he is retired and so it wasn't taken up as a whim or a fashion, but rather for the benefit of my horse. I have nothing against farriers or their trims, but for me the EP was the way I wanted to go. If she hadn't been good I'd have changed back without hesitation, but it turned out that she was the best thing for my horse so I remained with her and don't begrudge £40 for the amount of time she gives us. I don't really think she could afford to trim if she charged any less ! For those of you getting a good trim for £20 well done !!!! But not all of us have been lucky enough to get that.
PS. The training to become a qualified EP is not a 5 day course........there is a 5 day course but it does not qualify you to work as a registered EP.
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Oct 10, 2007 16:46:12 GMT 1
Its not how much training thats important but what the training is More time spent training isn't always automatically better. Its not just a 5 day course, its 5 of them and a lot of online and independent study between courses.
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