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Post by sarahfox on Oct 11, 2007 14:18:57 GMT 1
Heather,
Would you have a pic available of a horse in a novice frame? Just so that everybody can see exactly what you are describing?
Pleeeeeaase??!
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Post by jen1 on Oct 11, 2007 14:36:22 GMT 1
i think dona has been rather modest, her highland was a feral pony, he is one smart cookie, ""I have had a number of RWYM people come here on courses, and no one seems to be able to show me what is meant- all seem to interpret it differently!"",so thats where lanuage creates its first barrier,i dont think i could show anyone i can however help them to feel it, that's the point though, if you feel like a trust up chicken but look right and get the right feed back from the horse, then trust up chicken is good, however my image if trust up chicken is someone squashed, my instructor and i at the beginning ,20 years ago discussed things that made sense to me, what the kinesthetic felt like ,and we turned them into words, sentances, we both understood,so when she shouts corners i know what she means, i would think corners would conjure up many differant images in many differant minds, i find it very annoying when folks come out with relax/soft and come up from behind etc, this that and the other ,relax can mean to many folk to sit there and flop about, while someone might take it as something else entirely its the map thing isnt it, some folk want to scenic route and some want the quickest route, we all get where we want to be in the end,
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Post by june on Oct 11, 2007 14:50:19 GMT 1
I know exactly what you mean by corners jen1!
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Post by jen1 on Oct 11, 2007 14:56:52 GMT 1
the limbo feeling? boxes?lol,last time at Mary's she came up with something that's sounds really bizarre but its help me immensely, is right shoulder to right bra!lol
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Post by june on Oct 11, 2007 15:11:24 GMT 1
Fishing rods, pressure hose to let out the energy, aiming the bear down, pubic bone hooks, short front, wings, pockets. No wonder people think we are all mad.
I guess it depends on how different people learn as to what system works the best. Some people find it easier to learn in words, some in pictures and some with feel. For me the words conjure up images which I can then put into action. Then the feeling I get from the horse embeds it in my brain! Had an amazing canter on one of the polo ponies in my last lesson. The instructor - a RWYM one - told me to lift the inside seatbone to make a little bit of space and the horse's back lifted what felt like several inches. Quite an amazing feeling and the real beauty of it is I know how to recreate it too!
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 16:24:18 GMT 1
Heather, Would you have a pic available of a horse in a novice frame? Just so that everybody can see exactly what you are describing? Pleeeeeaase??! Hi Sarah, One of Anja Beran below, in a nice novice frame: ( well her horse!!) Heather
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 16:26:25 GMT 1
And my friend Gill's young Dales pony, contact could be lighter, but he was only just backed and still not quite in self carriage- A few months later, she says, and she gave the rein forward again! Not yet straight, see hind foot falling to inside of forefoot, but already well on his way to self carriage for his stage of training, see how his shoulders are 'up'? To work him long and low, would actually put him on his shoulders. He is like a mini Iberian! Gorgeous! Heather
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Post by june on Oct 11, 2007 16:26:35 GMT 1
Great even triangles between front and hind legs. Beautiful.
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Post by Lisanw on Oct 11, 2007 16:48:47 GMT 1
I have to strongly disagree with this! In just a couple of years working along Heather’s principles I’ve gone from what I would have described as an untidy cumbersome rider, (I'd been told by a previous instructor that I would never be elegant and effective) to someone beginning to feel that I will be able to train my horse with a reasonable degree of feel, in the way Heather describes. Yes, we have a long way to go! But it’s not an unimaginable dream anymore. I naturally have low self-confidence, but am just starting to believe that I might actually be able to do this and hopefully teach it to other people. That is ermm…thanks to Heather!
and
My girly is an ID x supposedly IDx TB but probably with a good dose of welsh chucked in there too - a real mongrel you wouldn't look twice at when she comes out of the field. She too was difficult when I got her – and is now a calm happy horse most of the time. We’re just at the beginning and she has all the time in the world, so we’re not doing much, just schooling, long reining and in-hand work at home but I’ve subscribed to my own method/mix of methods – pressure release from no particular school and clicker training. And it worked.
So please be enouraged, not discouraged by some of the beautiful pictures Heather has posted on here - it really IS possible for the ordinary horse and rider to work towards this!
Lisa
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Post by sarahfox on Oct 11, 2007 16:58:09 GMT 1
Thank you heather. Yes,great pics,I see exactly what you are describing now,and yes,I would have to agree with you all the way.I was just concerned that people would think that every horse and rider should be able to acheive the degree of self carriage that most of your lovely pics are working at. Whilst that could be a beautiful goal for many to work towards,I think it is way beyond many horse and rider combinations especially with the limited number of decent trainers available,at least these pics give a more acheivable goal whilst still showing what softness can be used to arrive there. Lisanw, Unfortunately Heather and the few other good instructors around are unable to spread themselves across the entire country,so whilst for some people things may be acheivable as they have a decent instructor to show them the way,sadly for many that just isnt possible at the present time.
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 17:24:59 GMT 1
Thats why we are trying hard to train up more instructors Sarah! The thirst is there for knowledge, and our 'Powers that be' dont listen to those who want to learn, anyway, so it is left to renegades like me to do something about it!
Heather
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Post by Lisanw on Oct 11, 2007 17:27:50 GMT 1
Hi Sarah, I didn't have anyone locally either so I just did what I could - travelled a 3 hour round trip for lessons on an EET's school horses when I could (I did have a phase of a couple of months when I made the trip every week 'cos my mare was off work and I had nothing to ride) and another EET travelled over two hours to me on I think three occasions before I moved.
Now I've moved I don't even have that, although of course it was wonderful to have Heather up here for the clinic she did in September but no, I don't have anyone who works this way up here (that I know of!!) to help me. The yard I'm at is fine but not at all this way inclined so I stick to my thing and they stick to theirs!
I'm not kidding, there is no way I'd have thought I'd ever be writing this a few years back and I really don't think there's any need for anyone on here to feel they can't get there if they really want to.
Lisa
MTA - just re-read your post Sarah and I didn't mean that anyone can suddenly turn into Heather overnight - but that following this sort of route isn't an impossible dream and surely once you're on that path you can start to aspire to those pics of Heather's, even if it takes a long time to get to that level.
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Post by wisconsinkate on Oct 11, 2007 17:30:41 GMT 1
Heather - haven't quite figured out how to do the "Quote" thing but earlier you wrote
"see how his shoulders are 'up'? To work him long and low, would actually put him on his shoulders"
Now I'm wondering if I've been doing the right thing with my welsh since his frame is very similar. I do think I had to work this way to some degree to get him secure with my hands and the bit again as I tried trusting someone else to teach us and feel it didn't work. He is much happier to work with me now and when I do ask for him to come onto the bit I only need to ask with a thumb and forefinger. I work with an event trainer once a week and some would say our flat work and dressage that I am learning isn't that classical but I will say he is a LOT more patient and fun to work with than the previous trainer I had. And the point of only using two fingers is just for now so that I begin to learn how easy it should feel.
My question is about the shoulders though - its something I really have a hard time looking at and figuring out on horses. When you say his shoulders are up - do you mean they are moving up as oppose to moving forward with his motion? I'm sorry if this sounds such a basic question to ask LOL!!! But despite being aware of it its something I am still trying to really get a good sense of. Therefore I wonder if I continued to work Bass long and low whether it would be more detrimental than helpful in getting his back and topline strong and ready to lift naturally with me up there. He has such a chunky little neck and I've found that teaching him to stretch out from his withers has helped him become a lot more pliable in terms of bending and flexing.
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 17:34:13 GMT 1
I'm going to be brutally honest here Lisa, when I saw you on the first course you came on, I wouldnt have said you would be the quiet, stylish rider, you are today, either. I am very happy indeed to er....eat my thoughts, rather than words in this case! ;D
Yes, I have given you the methods and the 'tools' with which to do it, but you are the one who has put in the effort, the time, the miles of travel ( think she's got shares in BMI and flybe!!) to achieve the rider that you are now.
There are very few people I would sell a horse to, but I need to cut down on my commitments, and I am selling my much loved little PRE stallion Coronel, to Lisa. She is one of the few I would trust to have him, and as she says, it is a good excuse to get me back up to Scotland!
Heather
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Post by Lisanw on Oct 11, 2007 17:44:36 GMT 1
LOL! Thanks Heather, I think But, the more I learn the more I'm sure I need a few more lifetimes to fit in all the other things I need to learn!! I daresay Coronel will be an integral part in the next part of my education though! Lisa
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