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Post by SaturdayGirl on Jun 20, 2007 10:41:29 GMT 1
Hmm interesting I've found my cob was awful in a pelham. He was incredibly heavy and no amount of leg could pursuede him to use his back end!. He is now schooled at home in a snaffle, and shown in a double which he goes beautifully in. Maybe it was the poll pressure of the pelham as he was the same in a hanging cheek?
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Post by heather on Jun 20, 2007 11:54:15 GMT 1
Hi Saturdaygirl,
The poll pressure should be minimal when the pelham is used correctly, and only intermittent in that it is only applied if the horse is not relaxing the lower jaw. The way in which we use it, the poll pressure hardly is applied because we rely on the curb chain to relax the lower jaw and when that relaxes, the poll relaxes of its own accord, as well as neck and back muscles. But not every bit suits every horse, and if your boy is happy in the snaffle at home and shows in the double, if it aint broke, dont mend it!
Love your cob!! I am doing a demo at the Northern Equine Event in December and using my EE teacher, Omar Rabia and his wonderful skewbald traditional cob, who is up to performing all the high level dressage movements and whose piaffe would put most horses in the GP arena to shame!
Heather
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Post by bobbiesbit on Jun 20, 2007 12:12:39 GMT 1
Heather thank you so much for your reply ,which pelham do you think i should try, thanks again julie. ;D
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Post by heather on Jun 20, 2007 12:41:16 GMT 1
Hi Julie,
I would go for a stainless steel mullen mouth, or straight bar low ported mouthpiecel both of which Shires do. If your horse had any tendency to stick his tongue over the bit, the latter is the best option, and the one we use on our ID Danny who used to like to do this!
Heather
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Post by bobbiesbit on Jun 20, 2007 18:06:27 GMT 1
Hi Heather thank you so much for your help,i think i will try the mullen mouth ,as Bobbi just sticks his tongue out at the side lol,thanks again ,julie.
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Post by heather on Jun 20, 2007 18:56:00 GMT 1
My pleasure Julie, let us know how it goes!
Heather
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holly
Olympic Poster
Posts: 511
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Post by holly on Jun 20, 2007 23:08:17 GMT 1
This thread is so informative . Many people are learnt that the French link is the mild its bit followed by the snaffle then the Pelham then the gag . This thread has completely changed my view and the difference in my horse is UN believable . Heather i thank you so much , do not get me wrong i did question whether this bit would be to strong for my four year old Arab. But to my amazement i took the flash off, put in the Mullen mouth Pelham and he breathed out so to speak as if to say thank god she has taken that horrendous bit out of my mouth and removed that horrible flash . I have ridden him since my experiment the other day, to see what he thought and he is like a dream. I am not saying every one will have this effect with there horse, but it is as though it is meant to be in my chaps mouth. Everything is little squeeze of the rain to back up my seat and to ask him to elevate and he does not question me now he just says OK mum. Out in company in his french link and flash, that he obviously did not like, he took off with me on a main road to wards a blind corner which was a bit scary and today in company, he went in front, behind, always waiting for my next command , rather than taking an extra three steps to stand, i squeeze the rain just between my fingers hold with my seat and he stops. He is carrying him self so much better to. Heather i thank you.
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Post by heather on Jun 20, 2007 23:52:47 GMT 1
So pleased to hear this Holly! I can never understand people who would rather struggle for often years, trying to get lightness in a snaffle when they can do it in minutes in a pelham in many cases and the horse as you say, accepts it without any question!
Heather
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Derek Clark
Grand Prix Poster
Olympic Poster
Posts: 1,369
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Post by Derek Clark on Jun 21, 2007 7:59:51 GMT 1
As I've often mentioned, I don't regard anything as "good" or "bad" in itself, everything can have a use at a certain time or place. Provided we understand the pro's and con's we can make effective decisions along the way.
So why on earth would anyone suggest persevering and learning how to get things working well in a snaffle when, as Heather mentions above, you CAN get a horse to accept a Pelham in minutes.
Here's a question for you all to ponder...
What exactly is happening in the horse's mind when he "accepts" the Pelham - and, assuming you don't pull at all, why on earth would he behave any differently when going back to to a simple snaffle (assuming that it fits his mouth of course)...? On the other hand, why would a Pelham make any difference to a horse that was excited (eg hacking, etc)
Here's a clue... it was previously mentioned that the curb element acts in such a way to produce an involuntary opening of the jaw.
Think about that...
What is lightness, really? Where does it actually occur? Appearance can be deceptive.
Derek
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Post by heather on Jun 21, 2007 11:20:30 GMT 1
Hi Derek,
Used correctly, it produces an involuntary relaxation of the jaw, brought about by a pressure and release effect on the curb chain when the rein is activated correctly, which causes the jaw muscles to relax. If the jaw has opened more than a mere unclenching of the muscles, then force is being used, which will make the horse open the mouth, and/or, drop behind the contact.
Where many riders make the mistake, is not to back it up with the leg- ok, I know this goes against Craig's teaching!- so that the horse is in a pretty outline at the front, and nothing is happening behind. But this is easily rectified, and because the horse so readily accepts a much lighter aid than is commonly applied in the snaffle, to me it is a much more humane way to ride, and teaches the rider to be far lighter with the hand.
Were you taught, as a child ( dont know what age group you are!) as was I, that to be told you had light hands was the highest compliment you could be paid? And we were also made to ride in whichever bit our ponies/horses accepted without resistance so as to keep our hands light? I grew up riding in double bridles and pelhams, and it seemed to me that only when the snaffle became the norm, as a result of competition dressage arriving in this country, that British rider's hands became harder and less aware of the mouth at the end of the reins. 'Get it into an outline', that is all you hear in general nowadays. I despair when I see the hands of so many riders of today, jabbing backwards, even in many so called 'classical' riders.
My old mentor, Capt. Desi Lorent used to fine us a drink down the pub every time we pulled back even half an inch, and at pub prices, you soon learned not to keep him too inebriated! I am not against a snaffle at all, when the horse accepts it happily, it is when I see horses having their heads sawn off in a snaffle, or strapped down with draw reins, that I feel that if more people learnt to ride in a curb, this would not happen.
You almost never see Western riders with bad hands, and this I attribute to the fact that they ride in strong curb bits. As a result, the hands need do so little, and they never get into this situation of more strength in the hand to reel the head in at the front.
Heather
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mariana
Advanced Poster
why not treat one?s wounded spirit with a horse?
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Post by mariana on Jun 21, 2007 16:48:15 GMT 1
Hi.. tried to read every post.. but really couldnt , so i apologise if you have already talked about this.. i have a question... what if you start riding withe a pelham bit but only one pair of reins? thanks!
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Post by heather on Jun 21, 2007 16:52:15 GMT 1
Hi Mariana,
You would have to use pelham roundings- these are things that join the two rings of the bit, and allow you to use one rein. This isnt good though, as the bit, to be used properly, must have two reins so that you still get the separate effects of snaffle and curb. It wont be quite as separate in action, as a double bridle, but it is a good compromise, and a good transition bit before you go on to use a double bridle.
Hope this helps!
Heather
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mariana
Advanced Poster
why not treat one?s wounded spirit with a horse?
Posts: 435
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Post by mariana on Jun 21, 2007 19:20:36 GMT 1
thanks a lot heather! guapo is very used to pelham... but usually rhode with one rein.... thanks m
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Derek Clark
Grand Prix Poster
Olympic Poster
Posts: 1,369
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Post by Derek Clark on Jun 21, 2007 19:29:02 GMT 1
Hi Heather,
Maybe it's time we let this one settle and move on to the next topic (lol ;D).
I'll happily agree that you can ride a horse successfully in a Pelham if you'll agree that it's possible to learn to ride with a snaffle alone using no more than the weight of the reins...
After that, it's just personal preferences, isn't it?
Best wishes,
Derek
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Post by mudlark on Jun 21, 2007 19:46:30 GMT 1
this thread has been utterly fascinating - I'd just like to add my thanks before it fizzles out! we're so lucky to have so many experts answering questions and debating the finer points of riding on this DG. I feel I've learnt such a huge amount reading posts by Kelly, the RAs, Heather, Derek and Sue recently - please keep them coming!
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