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Post by bhpride on Jun 15, 2007 11:34:50 GMT 1
I'm starting to school an unschooled 5yo pony from today which is hacked out in a pelham with double reins, I don't know anything about this bit apart from that it's quite a harsh bit(?) so I'm changing it to a snaffle for schooling.
The rider hacking out changed it to a pelham and just wanted to know why this would be used? I don't know anything about bits lol
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Post by chunky monkey on Jun 15, 2007 11:44:30 GMT 1
Hi bhpride - a pelham isn't actually a harsh bit, it just gives a different action to a snaffle and a gag. In fact, most pelhams have mullen mouthpieces, which is really mild in the mouth. The pelham acts more on the poll (the longer the shanks of the pelham, the greater the poll leverage) and jaw (a chain is more severe, but it can be used with an elastic or leather curb for a milder effect) - there is less action on the mouth. Pelhams seem to be good for on-the-forehand horses/ponies, as they seem to lighten the front, but I know that some horses do overbend in them. Also, by using 2 reins, you can ensure that you only use the curb action when you need to (to soften the jaw). And, as with any bit, it's only as harsh as the hands on the end of the reins! Tracey PS can you tell I use a pelham for my horsey!
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apple123
Olympic Poster
Liberty May
Posts: 802
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Post by apple123 on Jun 15, 2007 11:56:14 GMT 1
Agree with you 99% Tracey but "Pelhams seem to be good for on-the-forehand horses/ponies, as they seem to lighten the front"...depends on the type of pelham, from past and present experience the 3 young horses i've had all liked the rugby pelham, and leaned/went on the forehand in every other pelham. bhpride...it's a good idea to change to a snaffle for schooling as if the pony hasnt been schooled before and it's still only young it may feel it cant go forward in the pelham and then you may find yourself with bigger problems to solve
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Post by Zuzan on Jun 15, 2007 12:00:18 GMT 1
Pelhams should always be used with dbl reins IMHO.. you can always ride with a loop in the curb but it equally means that if you need to bring your horse / pony back to you don't have to rely on the bit itself.. personally I like them for this reason..
The strength of the mouth piece (what actually goes in the mouth) can vary considerably .. a french link / double jointed / lozenge type is probably the mildest.. whilst a single jointed is far stronger.. some people whose horses have big tounges and low palats also like waterford mouthpieces, good one of these looks like a series of rounded balls and links and can be quite harsh but with sensitive / educated hands many horses go well in them and like them..
The curb strength is dependent on the shank (the metal bar that drops from the bit to the curb attachement the longer that is the greater the leaverage / strength..
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laine
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 177
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Post by laine on Jun 15, 2007 12:09:26 GMT 1
I have to make a point with regard to Zuzans comment about jointed pelhams. A jointed pelham doesnt give the action of a pelham. When the joint comes into play the curb chain wont so gives cross signals. Im not saying they dont have their place but i have never used one and nor have anyone else i know for the reasons stated. For general riding my big boy is in a baucher snaffle - for sponsored rides and such like he's in a vulcanite pelham with quite long shanks, only ever used with double reins. Just means i have breaks if i need them. I dont use it for schooling as i feel it can give a false impression of an outline.
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Post by bhpride on Jun 15, 2007 12:10:10 GMT 1
Just read your post after posting Zuzan , I think i'll stick with a simple snaffle..fairplay I don't know anything about bits and this bit could be the harshest going for all I know so don't want to risk it..I always used a gag/bubble bit previously I chose the thickest snaffle one as I believe this is milder? Is that right? I don't know what it's called though,
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Kerryf
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,615
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Post by Kerryf on Jun 15, 2007 12:13:55 GMT 1
You really need to take into account the confirmation of the pony's mouth before you decide whether he needs a thick of thin mouthpiece.
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Post by Zuzan on Jun 15, 2007 12:15:27 GMT 1
You can put a rounding on between the bit ring and the curb ring but that means that you will always be using the curb so making it harsher
The term pelham relates to one mouthpiece with a curb chain and not the actual mouthpiece .. you can have a snaffle mouthpieced pelham if that makes sence..
Check the horses mouth to see how much room there is .. if it has a low palate (roof of the mouth) and big tongue i would make sure that the mouthpice doesn't cause discomfort be being too thick so no thickest is not always "milder" Is there a join in the mouthpiece at all (if not it's a Mullen Mouthed Pelham and as long as there is room in the mouth for it then it is "mild"
The reason the young horse you rode when you were a teenager wasn't forward going might well have been more to do with the mouthpiece and the horses mouth conformation than anything else.
[A jointed pelham doesnt give the action of a pelham. When the joint comes into play the curb chain wont so gives cross signals This really depends on adjusting the curb correctly so the first effect of the curb is on the chin groove before it puts poll pressure on.. if you adjust the curb so the first effect is on the chin groove then this action is not contradicting the action of a jointed mouthpiece just asking the horse to bring it's nose in .. not lower it which the poll pressure would do.
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Post by bhpride on Jun 15, 2007 12:19:11 GMT 1
I dont use it for schooling as i feel it can give a false impression of an outline. That's exactly what I'd want to avoid
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Post by bhpride on Jun 15, 2007 12:25:11 GMT 1
Thanks Zuzan I'll take a good look at her mouth tonight, there is no joint in the pelham at all, just a straight bit of metal so to speak.
There's two snaffle bits, one thick and the other is quite thin..lord how can there be so many bits, need to educate myself on this I think lol
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Post by ktk on Jun 15, 2007 12:28:46 GMT 1
Best thing to do is ask why they changed into a pelham in the first place. Im sure there was a reason, and not one you want to find out about when your out hacking in a snaffle!
Ive personally found double jointed bits to be much milder than single jointed. Dito Kerry F. With my boys ive found the thick bits to be more uncomfortable than the thinner ones.
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Post by bhpride on Jun 15, 2007 12:33:51 GMT 1
They said it was changed because she went better in it but she's only ever been hacked... I'll only be schooling her for as long as it takes and will ensure she's responsive and schooled enough in a snaffle before hacking out. Will suss her out tonight, I'd rather school and do enough work to hack safely in a snaffle if possible than using a harsher bit though.
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Post by gingerloon on Jun 15, 2007 12:54:52 GMT 1
bhpride, what breed is she?
My old welsh section d went beautifully in a pelham with double reins and never seemed happy in a jointed snaffle. she was very much on her forehand especially when full of herself and the pelham lightened her forehand. I foudn that minimal rein contact was needed where as with a snaffle she would be a bit dead in the mouth and set her jaw.
However, she also went realy nicely in a french link snaffle for schooling. You may have to have a play with different bits before you find one she is happy in
In my opinion bits are only as harsh and the hands holding the reins, a pelham that the horse responds to is far better than a snaffle bit which the horse takes hold of and strong contact is needed.
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Post by gingerloon on Jun 15, 2007 12:55:27 GMT 1
just to add, it was a ported pelham as she had a large tongue
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Post by bhpride on Jun 15, 2007 13:08:11 GMT 1
Hi Gingerloon, she's an unregistered cob x welsh , ..to be honest because I'm training classically so I rarely use the bit/reins as an aid if that makes any sense, I slow down, turn etc using the seat only and at most blocking the forward movement gently with my hands, but if she's unhappy with the bit this would an issue when it comes to teaching lateral movements although this obviously won't be for a while yet. I'll look at her mouth and will start with either the thin or thicker snaffle depending on her mouth at first for the basics and perhaps move onto the pelham once she's progressed enough to start the grown up stuff lol Are double reins harder to ride with/how do you use them? Sorry for all the questions but thank you to those who've replied so far, it's a big help
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