holly
Olympic Poster
Posts: 511
|
Post by holly on Jun 17, 2007 21:36:22 GMT 1
thank you so much, what mouth piece should i get because i no they are all different. i will have a look at your book, thank you again hollyx
|
|
|
Post by rosemaryhannah on Jun 17, 2007 22:19:26 GMT 1
Now you see what a site this is! We ordinary bods get to talk to real experts. I do appreciate this - this site is a great leveller, not in the sad sense of levelling down, but levelling us all UP. Which is what education is about, or should be.
|
|
|
Post by Zuzan on Jun 17, 2007 22:39:34 GMT 1
Holly in the momentary abscence of the Pelham Expert I would stick with a French Link Pelham or one of those nice lozenge type jobs.. I know an ex racehorse who can get a little "carried away" sometimes but the French Link Pelham really prevents things getting completely out of hand and he's very happy in it..
|
|
|
Post by heather on Jun 17, 2007 22:50:25 GMT 1
Sorry to disagree, Zuzan, but a jointed pelham generally doesnt work. The joint causes the curb chain not to sit in the curb groove, but further up the jaw, and against the actual jawbones. This means that the reflex point in the curb groove wont react, and the horse will often duck behind the contact to avoid the discomfort of the chain against bone. It works for the odd horse- my show cob used to go well in a French link rugby pelham, but for the majority, it isnt the best choice-mullen mouth or ported straight bar is far more effective. And I avoid ever thinking of the pelham as brakes!!- I use it purely to achieve a relaxed lower jaw and self carriage. Once the horse is in self carriage and has built up the correct musculature, it is much harder for them to brace the muscle on the underside of the neck in order to bog off , so they often dont try! Heather
|
|
|
Post by julz on Jun 17, 2007 23:46:08 GMT 1
Im not very good at explaining things, either in type or verbally, but I feel a real difference in Seamus in the times I have ridden him in his mullen mouth pelham (2 reins). I feel I have have more response from him (as if he comes alive in his pelham), he certainly carries himself better, I feel i have more horse under me... and although I don't use it all the time, I feel I ride him better/he goes better for me, and im no longer sitting on a lazy lump....
I've always been told I have "good" hands, and don't rely on the horse's mouth for balance....
|
|
holly
Olympic Poster
Posts: 511
|
Post by holly on Jun 18, 2007 7:55:48 GMT 1
Thank you so much heather and every one. I am still in shock that you have replied to me. i am over the moon. I will deff be at the shops this morn to purchase him one. I certainly do not want to be pull pull pull with him. He is still young , and i use my seat overall, because i have found that the more pressure applied the faster our chaps go and the more they evade. Were as if he will relax through his mouth and poll, he will feel safer and we will both also get home in one piece.
Ps heather i no i am being really cheaky now , but i have had over 14 saddles on him of late and can not for the life of me get any one of them to fit properly. At the moment he has rather a big grass belly and i no come the winter he will be a different shape all over again. I do not want to have to keep paying out all the time. I no this is different to the bits, but they say if you do not ask you will never no. Have thought about tree lessd, but heard so many bad reports and also i am not sure if i will feel that secure on one as when az shys we stop quick. thank you again
|
|
|
Post by nich on Jun 18, 2007 8:04:09 GMT 1
Holly you need a better saddle fitter! I am so shocked that you have been through 14 saddles! Our saddle fitter (lucky enough to have Kay Humphries for our horses) will advise if and how a saddle can be altered to fit better. EG all 3 of our are being changed, 1 fits but Kay advised trying widening it to put a pro-lite underneath as the horse is very sensitive in her back, one needs raising up as she has changed shape, the other isn't a Kay saddle, and isn't quite balanced but she will make it so. Also, we have one of Kay's treeless saddles, it was expensive to buy, but is worth it's weight in gold as almost any horse can use it (great when the others are away being reflocked, etc), we have lent it to friends who's horses are between saddles, OH hacks and schools in it (but finds it not ideal for larger jumps). our horses all shy (we have long grass and pheasants!), but, you seem to get a warning eralier in the treeless, yes you can feel more but you sound like you have a good seat Holly, so you'd be fine.
|
|
|
Post by nich on Jun 18, 2007 8:05:09 GMT 1
meant to add, stubben string girths are also great to keep saddles secure, and less sweat underneath than leather/synthetic.
|
|
|
Post by heather on Jun 18, 2007 8:40:51 GMT 1
Kays saddles are not actually treeless Nich- I was involved very much in the development of the saddles, as Barrie Swain also made my Flexion Supreme saddle, based on the same design. They have a flexible, but still hard front arch, and wooden cantle, and in the case of Kay's, also flexible connector bars inbetween both. Very good saddles yes, but treeless, no!
The Fhoenix has only a hard cantle support in the cantle itself, to support the rider's seat, but not an actual part tree. The rest of the saddle is completely soft and flexes with the horse completely.
My horses have never ever had a problem with our treeless saddles, and their backs have developed a great deal since I brought them over from Spain or Portugal. There is nothing in the front arch to limit shoulder movement in lateral work and this makes a great difference to training this work. My Lusitano gelding, bullfighting bred, can spin quicker than I can think, and we never know what scares him- he is not frightened of things like plastic bags etc, so it is very difficult to desensitise him. We can only think he hears something that we cant and that causes him to spin and spook so badly that my head has touched his bum, such is the G force. But our saddles have never moved on him- thankfully!
Heather
|
|
|
Post by bhpride on Jun 18, 2007 8:49:06 GMT 1
will good news, I tried another bit lent by a friend - and yes have forgotten the name of it already (it's got a bit in the middle for the horse to play with) lol, I rode her gently for 5 minutes yesterday and she went beautifully..calm, obedient, responsive and didn't resist/lean/pull on the bit at all so I'm over the moon with her Going to have a couple days doing more handling before riding her again Wednesday She's very soppy, I've spent a couple of hours in total grooming her so far and she tucks her head into me and relaxs as I brush her face lol so she's loving the attention . If I ignore her she isn't amused and will try to get my attention I'm going to stick with the bit lent to me, pelham sounds good but I'm not experienced enough to be using double reins so I'm not going to go there. She's happy with this bit so I'll keep it on her
|
|
|
Post by heather on Jun 18, 2007 9:29:36 GMT 1
Just right, bhpride, if she is happy in this one, 'if it ain't broke', dont mend it! You wont need the pelham.
Heather
|
|
|
Post by Amanda (S Yorks) on Jun 18, 2007 10:05:24 GMT 1
As of yesterday my mare is going back in her pelham! She's been out of work for quite some time and I found when bringing her back into ridden work the pelham was a bit too much for her so put her in a hanging cheek mullen mouth, which has been great for the low level work we've been doing. Now I'm starting to ask for more forwards and flexibility she's getting a bit fizzy and above herself and I found out last night that the snaffle is just no good when she's like that. I need her to soften through her jaw in order for me to be able to use half halts and other aids effectively but I just couldn't get that in the snaffle and ended up with a very argumentative and cheesed off horse who just wanted to go fast with her head in the air or have a long rein and nose on the floor. I had little steering or brakes either as when she's like that seat and weight aids go out the window!
I don't use the pelham for brakes as such but find that the ability to ask her to soften through her jaw and then poll, and the positive response to this, makes for a much nicer ride for both of us. If she's soft in her jaw, she's soft in her poll, thereby she's soft in her neck and is able to listen to my aids properly.
It's not really a schooling issue as such for my girl as I can happily ride her in a headcollar when her brain is engaged. When her brain isn't engaged I need to be able to focus her quickly and just can't get that connection when she's set her jaw and neck against me.
|
|
|
Post by Emily+Meg on Jun 18, 2007 12:38:55 GMT 1
I found that Meg didnt get on with a pelham, but, she doesnt get on with any bit.
I have heard such good comments on here re: the pelham I am going to try again with it, but I think I will purchase a elastic curb chain.
|
|
holly
Olympic Poster
Posts: 511
|
Post by holly on Jun 18, 2007 13:46:54 GMT 1
well my friend happened to have a mullen mouth pelham that was the right size for my boy, so i borrowed it today, removed his flash and off we went. Why an earth i did not do this before i will never no. I suppose the thought of putting a pelham in my babies mouth made my skin crawl. He was like a dream, he came into a lovely outline with out me really trying , he loved not having his flash on. I only needed minimal squeese of the rain to bring him down from his paces. no pulling back was required, ie when he has his moments. His cantre was to die for, collected was the word. He even seamed more balanced. I think az was thourally impressed i certainly was. All i need now is a good saddle and i will be one happy bunny, uh and heathers book, two rains not as easy as look but fathemed it in the end. I actually hardly used my lower rein, only to ask him to relax, hope that was right and all i did was squeese the rain in my fingers. thank you so much heather and to all you other guys.
|
|
|
Post by bhpride on Jun 18, 2007 14:01:01 GMT 1
Quick question, if a pelham suddenly makes a horse work better/in an outline etc..is it a shortcut? Why wasn't the same acheieved before the bit was used? I'd be unhappy with myself/downright depressed if I couldn't work a horse correctly in anything other than a pelham
|
|