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Post by julz on Jun 16, 2007 12:34:33 GMT 1
Im sure you'll be fine... I start off using my snaffle reins with a normal contact and the curb reins a little more looser till he's warmed up and working, then gradually pick up the curb contact. He's not really that sensitive to it, but some horses might be, and if they arent used to the different feeling of that contact could get a fright, IMO better to pick up the contact slowly, and give the horse a positive experience. Pic of Seamus and I in his pelham it's a bit blurry!!!!
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Post by jayandfizz on Jun 16, 2007 12:47:08 GMT 1
i use a mullen mouth pelham of jay for hacking & jumping. i hate roundings as it blurs the action of the bit, double reins are a faff to start with but you get used to them ;D
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Post by julz on Jun 16, 2007 12:52:06 GMT 1
Ahhh....pretty horsie!!!
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Post by heather on Jun 16, 2007 12:53:25 GMT 1
Hi Jayandfizz- lovely horse, but please, slacken off his throatlatch!! - you will be strangling him when he flexes! It should fall into the cheek groove four inches further down. That way, when he flexes at poll and jaw, the throatlatch doesnt tighten up into his throat and make him want to resist, or choke! Remember, throatlatches were there as much to stop hunting gentlemen pulling the bridle off over the horse's ears when going over his head, as anything else! ;D Heather
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Post by jayandfizz on Jun 16, 2007 16:34:11 GMT 1
he was only borrowing it as his extra full had snapped, that was a full size one as the saddler had none left,he has a extra full again lol.
thanks for posting though.
julz, you need to come over way before the show & meet him lol
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breezy
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,065
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Post by breezy on Jun 16, 2007 17:20:20 GMT 1
I ride my Connie in a pelham - it's wonderful - I've always liked them, used as Heather advises. He has never been ridden in a normal snaffle, I have never liked the nutcracker action - my old boy would just run backwards in one - but ok in a french link. But in the pelham he carries himself 100% better and really goes well - he's very green and we don't school except out hacking.
To my mind snaffles can be the most severe bit, especially on a low paletted horse.
I like the finesse and lightness a pelham gives as well - two reins are very easy to get used to!
Bx
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Post by heather on Jun 16, 2007 17:40:49 GMT 1
Ah, Breezy, just by your description, I KNOW you are using the pelham correctly . 'Lightness' is so rarely a word used these days in riding. 'Light hands' used to be the highest accolade a horseman or woman could be paid- nowadays you hardly hear it used, sadly. It is all 'get it into an outline'. I have heard even classical teachers ask students to hold onto the reins and the numnah/saddle cloth. until the horse 'gives' in the snaffle. Why use force? - In the pelham, it usually takes me a few seconds of nothing more than 'asking' with the fingers, for the horse to relax his jaw and come lightly into the hand. If more riders learnt to use a curb bit correctly, I am truly of the opinion that there would be a lot fewer problem horses too. I see so many that are deadened to the snaffle, and the riders hands get ever harder, or they put the poor horse in draw reins and pull his head in and down. I learnt when I was young, to ride my horses and ponies in whichever bit they went most lightly and without resistance. So we experimented to find one that fitted this requirement. It wasnt until dressage came into the country as a sport, that everyone suddenly had to ride in a snaffle, and sadly,with it, went the good hands that everyone aspired to . Heather
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Post by sara on Jun 16, 2007 19:17:20 GMT 1
Heather - I am reading with massive interest your posts.
Lloyd goes absolutly beautifully in a Pelham and a double bridle, he really is a joy to ride. All the arguments stop, and he becomes so responsive to ride. I ride with 2 reins, as my pat hate is pelhams and roundings, and have a very light contact on the curb. He is wonderfully uphil and light in the pelham, and goes into a fab outline, onto the bit with only a hint of asking, I literally just have to pick up a contact and he falls into n outline. The problem I have is transferring this into a snaffle. I really really want to progress in dressage, so obviously can't compete with a pelham. Everything seems to be a fight with the snaffle, and my wonderful horse who goes so nicely in the pelham disappears, and he is hard to get into an outline, leans on your hands, gets very strong etc. Do you have any tips, on how to transfer it all into a snaffle?
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Post by heather on Jun 16, 2007 20:18:35 GMT 1
Hi Sara,
Glad you are enjoying the posts! I post here purely because I find so many IHDG members on the same wavelength as my own forum, EE. Max's forum too. I have tried to help on dressage forums and been shouted out by resident 'experts' who all think that I am completely barmy for advocating the pelham!! Here, I find open minds, and I am very happy to help where I can.
There are many horses who will simply never go as well in a snaffle or with lightness as with a pelham/curb double.But any competition students I do work with I will not allow to enter below elementary level. Why? They can use a double bridle for a start, but also, prelim and novice tests are the main reason that so many never get beyond them.
The way in which they are devised, makes it difficult for horses to progress. 20m circles are actually one of the hardest things for a rider to ride accurately as they are such a large area to get the human eye focused on! Also, in prelim tests, asking a novice horse to canter a full 20m circle and then have to continue down the long side, is a recipe for putting a horse on its forehand! Aaarrgghhh! Transitions, transitions, transitions, are the key to getting a horse up off its shoulders, and maintaing and improving the quality of the pace, not great long wodges of canter!
Then they ask a horse to lengthen the stride in trot! Yes, some warmbloods pop out of the womb able to extend, genetically engineered to do so, and this is not true extension anyway!- but so many other breeds can extend very well and also correctly, when extension is developed from collection. This is why you see so many flat, running 'lengthened' strides in lower level classes.
But elementary classes are the best place to start. You get better judges, and the movements are actually easier to ride, smaller circles, lateral work introduced ( and it is soooo easy if you are shown properly how!) and with a horse light and at ease in a double, the whole test is easier to ride!
If you put your horse back in a snaffle for a lower level test, try a hanging cheek, preferably with a lozenge type double joint. The KK Ultra is my favourite if I have to use a snaffle, but give me the lightness of a curb any day!
Heather
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Post by heather on Jun 16, 2007 20:19:41 GMT 1
PS, Super horse Sara, and I am a sucker for greys, having six myself!
Heather
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Post by rosemaryhannah on Jun 16, 2007 23:06:52 GMT 1
I'm glad to read this, Heather, having had a good deal of stick for putting my easy-going Haffie in a pelham, purely because he went well in it - not because he needed extra breaks. He just does not get on with any jointed bit. These days, I keep the Pelham for special occasions, and he goes well in a 'vulcanite' snaffle. I think the pelham let him get the hang of things a bit more. Sara, have you tried a dressage legal straight bar?
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Post by Yann on Jun 16, 2007 23:20:03 GMT 1
I used a pelham with my cob for the same reason initially as an experiment, she liked it, softened and relaxed easily in it. As my young daughter was also riding her at the time and couldn't cope with two reins I used the dreaded roundings. It still worked and she now goes nicely in a KK ultra on a soft rein contact.
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Post by eskimo on Jun 16, 2007 23:42:45 GMT 1
I to use Pelham's with 2 reins of course. But i agree whole heartedly with what Heather is saying. I only decided to try a Pelham after reading Heathers posts a while back about this subject & as a very open minded Dressage rider i decided to make the break. I do use Doubles but i do get slight head tossing which is due to the horse having a large tongue & his mouth being filled 2 bits, he really doesn't like the Double much. But in the Pelham no head tossing , but a light, quiet & happy responsive horse,& me being able to ride with a very light hand which is another bonus in my book!! I have now also put my old TB in a Pelham & again same results. He will be a pleasure to show this year & i can't wait to show him off as he can still do some fab work be it a little stiffly. Bless Thanks Heather
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holly
Olympic Poster
Posts: 511
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Post by holly on Jun 17, 2007 9:44:04 GMT 1
i have found this thread very interesting and would love some advice. As you are aware i have a four year old 14 2 arab. he was proffesionaly schooled. he was asked for an outline very quickly and ended up with a flash on as he would try to evade contact. Now after reading this article it has made me rea think. For a long time now i have rode with very little contact as i felt he needs to find his own balance before i put him into an outline so to speak. I find if you apply to much contact now he will throw his head up, so i often work him long and low. I feel this is because he has been forced to work in an out line to early. The pelham has really captured my eye. But need to no more about it. At the moment he is ridden in a french link and still has his flash on. In company as many horses do in cantre he becomes very excited and the nose is up in the air and gone. If a horse goes further away he will go into cantre to keep up. I pressure release, go into a rise and he will just go more collected and try and be with the other horse. so can you recommend this bit for my chap and if so which one would i think about using. Also he will slip onto the forehand unless i constantly work him up, ie lifting his bck engageing quatres then working him into a contact. he will not drop from the bit with only little pressure.
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Post by heather on Jun 17, 2007 10:00:37 GMT 1
I am SOOOO pleased that this has worked for you all who have tried it! This is what I mean about you IHDG members- like my own EE members, you are a breath of fresh air, not afraid to try new things for the good of your horses.
Holly, I remember Robin Abel-Smith, a brilliant horse dentist that Max used and introduced me to years ago, showed me that Arabs have a different shaped mouth to other horses in general. Robin's aunt, Lady May Abel-Smith, was one of the early importers of Arabian horses and had one of the most famous studs of all time, so I had good reason not to doubt Robin's advice!
He was doing the teeth of my two Arabs, and he told me to put my hand in and feel the shape. He said this was why many Arabs hated snaffles. My own two Arabs refused resolutely to go in snaffles and accepted the pelham from the first moment. I wouldn t hesitate to try the pelham on your Arab. You can get rid of the flash then too. Try the elastic curb chain first though- keep it as mild as possible.
If you can get hold of a copy of my book, Enlightened Equitation, it has a detailed description of how to use the fingers to separately activate the reins. The book is now out of print, but I have the publishing rights back and am going to revise and update it and put it out as an ebook, but not until I have finished the new book!
Heather
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