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Post by heather on Aug 21, 2007 13:17:05 GMT 1
PS can elaborate further if any questions, but away now till Thursday and no net access!
Heather
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Post by Amanda Dolby on Aug 21, 2007 13:54:09 GMT 1
Hmm - my pre requiste for a rider is that they no longer "chuck themselves about"( poor horse) and have enough control to either use the whole body or individual aids of choice at all paces. Ok they can have hiccups and bad days!
in the scenario I posted about inhale and look after set up of horse . The inhale and slight raise of chin will create a bit of a half halt action through rein and seat. while the direction of the riders head and shoulders will create a flexion of the horse by releasing the outside rein. The exhale and lower of chin will have the oposite of half halt. It is the pre requisites of "body connection" and an appropraitely adjusted rein that makes it work as not just a "weight aid" Further excercises would continue to develope the acuracy of the individual or combination of aids so that the rider has a choice in the future. One aid at time after the initial "thats how it feels excercise" I believe is the way to go. It works for the horse so it can work for the human. Rein, Seat/weight and leg aids all in one go is a bit "grabby " for me personally I guess opinion is what makes an individual. viva la differance.
Oh and incidentally this does work on not so schoolmasters.
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Post by suewhitmore on Aug 21, 2007 14:48:37 GMT 1
Now we have the pre-requisites more or less out of the way, I will post the next video clue. I have asked the person who posted it if he could do a slo-mo version so we can link the aids to the legs, and he said he will have a go. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXcI4YQTu3AWhat my secret plan was (Heather - you are just such a spoilsport - minus 5, but you can share the choccies Butterfly has promised me) was to ask, IN THE EXPLANATION section, how the method would act as a building block for tempi changes. I think that it is essential that whatever you teach will lead logically and rationally to the next stage.
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Post by spanner on Aug 21, 2007 14:56:46 GMT 1
Ditto what Heather just said. So.... what do I score?
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Post by lohan on Aug 21, 2007 15:05:52 GMT 1
Heather, when you say feel is mandatory, what level of feel is that? My pre-requisite was quite a rudimentary notion of feeling that would enable you to put your body (or parts of your body) in the right places when you feel it is the right time to do so. And I would assume that basic feeling would have been developed by default to ride at the level stated.
But would that be sufficient to get a) nothing b) a flying change c) a "good" flying change?
Amanda, I assume you are talking of a more refined body awareness? If so, would that be the difference in elegance of execution, or the ability to execute the move at all?
Sorry, my last question on pre-requisites :-)
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Post by Amanda Dolby on Aug 21, 2007 15:18:02 GMT 1
Lohan Interesting question-
I think....... er ..one could expect elegance in sitting to the move but not with the mechanics of the issue however at "the level" stated I would not expect a rider to be "chucking itself about" - using Heathers terms ( I do like them)
hmm I percieve quite alot of room for maneuvre here and am finding it tricky to articulate an answer for you here in the written word lohan....... though I do think I am talking of a more re fined body awareness Well there is a post that may make little or no sense!...or not......
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Post by Amanda Dolby on Aug 21, 2007 15:19:48 GMT 1
Also thinking of the above - horses and riders can chuck and drag themselves about alarmingly and still manage a flying change and tempi changes - though they don't look ever so pretty!
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Post by lohan on Aug 21, 2007 16:58:50 GMT 1
Thanks Amanda.
I'll actually bail out now as a fraud as I've never ridden a flying change nor am I likely to, let alone teach it :-) I am, however, very interested in the ways people develop body awareness, sensitivity and feeling and to what degree they take those abilities and apply them in any aspect of horsemanship. So that was just my own agenda!
So do I get extra points for being an honest fraud?
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Post by suewhitmore on Aug 21, 2007 17:37:51 GMT 1
Lohan,
Absolutely, 7 bonus points. Got to go and see the ggs, so I'll do scores etc a bit later.
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cobalmighty
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Posts: 618
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Post by cobalmighty on Aug 21, 2007 23:10:34 GMT 1
ok, seeing as others have added to theirs..... My pre-requisites in rider - able to achieve canter lead of choice, true and counter (ie not just rely on horse to get it right by himself!) - able to distinguish leads and identify which they are on WITHOUT LOOKING - knows what flying change is - has enough core stability / body control (whatever you like to call it) to know where their body is and how to alter its influence on the horse's balance (ie be able to move their hands / legs / weight by choice not just as reaction to gravity and horse moving!) - seat is stable and independent, hands are steady and independent to seat, legs the same. - as somebody else mentioned.... I'd also like them to be fairly sober As for the "feeling" during learning thing... Learning theory is well established that there are three kinds of ways in which humans learn, and we are pre-programmed to prefer a certain style of learning or teaching. Auditory learners like to learn by listening, having explanations, details, information. Visual learners like to be able to see something, or have a picture described of what they're aiming for, a mental image of "correct". Kinaesthetic learners are the touchy feely ones, they like to be able to feel how something should be, learning for them is an emotional experience, a tactile one. The very best learners in any sphere are the ones who are able to combine all three styles. None of us are exclusively one style or the other, but we usually have a dominant type (which can be illustrated in various tests), which will result in quicker and more thorough learning of a skill or content. As a teacher, it is our challenge to adapt our teaching style to the possible learning style of each pupil, recognising that their learning perception is probably different to our own, and hence it is our job to adapt what we feel / see / hear ourselves into somethig valid for their way of learning and perceiving the information. The very best teachers are those that can take what they have learnt themselves and translate it into the most suitable form to pass on to their pupil in their own learning style. Ooops, got a bit carried away with learning theory there, sorry. Hope some of that is useful to someone! Cobby x edited for shocking spelling and grammar - I blame the keyboard!
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Post by suewhitmore on Aug 21, 2007 23:17:51 GMT 1
Cobby, 20 bonus points. Very interesting indeed. I just think that sometimes it can be easier to get a teacher that suits you - I've noticed some things that I'll discuss in the explanation section. BTW, which items off the list did yours most closely represent? Do I need to add to the list? I've modified the first post to include a summary of everyone's ideas, but nobody has told me if I've got theirs right or not!
I got soaked to the skin tonight and didn't get back from the yard for ages, so I'm going to leave the pre-requisite summary for tonight - please all start thinking about setting up the horse. Remember, it's meant to be one sentence and lack of punctation doesn't make three sentences one.
ETA, I *will* be putting the people who haven't done their homework in the naughty corner, but you've got a reprieve until tomorrow night, thanks to the weather. ;D
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trudi
Advanced Poster
Posts: 345
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Post by trudi on Aug 22, 2007 6:46:35 GMT 1
nobody has told me if I've got theirs right or not! I got soaked to the skin tonight and didn't get back from the yard for ages, so I'm going to leave the pre-requisite summary for tonight - please all start thinking about setting up the horse. Remember, it's meant to be one sentence and lack of punctation doesn't make three sentences one. ETA, I *will* be putting the people who haven't done their homework in the naughty corner, but you've got a reprieve until tomorrow night, thanks to the weather. ;D Sue, I posted on this a couple of days ago re:if you had interpreted our pre-req's correctly! I may dip out though 'cos if we are moving on to tempis, which I have never taught anyone, I will leave it to the others! Got lots on today but I'll catch up tonight , Trudi
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Post by suewhitmore on Aug 22, 2007 7:54:44 GMT 1
Trudi, not moving on to tempis, just that what we do would be correct for tempis. In fact, if anything, I think the value of the pre-requisites is that it has shown you need a fairly advanced level for this work - the next obvious thing for me would be to discuss simple change and counter canter!
A slightly different approach, and I think it's quite interesting - start with the "big" stuff and then say, right, what do you need for that - how do you do that? And work backwards until you get to the level I teach - feel and timing of aids! (i.e. the very first lesson).
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Post by Amanda Dolby on Aug 22, 2007 9:04:30 GMT 1
Cobalmighty Yep teaching skills - I have that too! However- be you V A K O or G or numb you sure as hell are going to have to feel it at some time as you will I would hope be sitting on a moving object the horse - which strangely enough the rider is trying to comunicate with by a language based on ........ feel/ touch. oh and a little V and O Of course I would be speaking in the prefered system of my rider to communicate what I have to say. Sadly I haven't learn signing yet and so would need a translator. Though I have in the past taught a blind person to ride.
Sue Every lesson should be concious of the very first elements.
To be honest I don't care what the goal of the rider is. If they want to do airs above the ground only by whistling ques standing in the saddle on one foot - well that would be a bit of a challenge that - yep I think I may accept - I 'm sure I can be as bonkers as anyone. I think a pre requiste would be that they are not terrified of the horse or falling! Could rig up a pully system to stop them hitting the ground.
Not everyon eis into high school though and I like the basic principle of "doing" as little as possible to get what we require from the horse. Many just want to feel safe on a safe horse. this is a fair goal in my book. All the same principles apply.
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Post by lohan on Aug 22, 2007 9:48:54 GMT 1
cobalmighty, just to clarify my point on the feeling thing (sorry, not meaning to go off topic!) I know the 3 intellectual learning styles (I am visual, if I remember correctly) and how using the wrong style to teach a person means they probably just wont get it. Absolutely agree that a teacher needs to teach the student, not the technique, and that means working in the way the student needs to work not the way the teacher thinks is best.
However, my background is martial arts where an extreme level of body awareness, sensitivity and non-intellectual 'feel' is the goal of everyone, regardless of what intellectual mode is used to teach it to them. This is not intellectual feel like a teacher may use to teach - it is separate to their learning style and is therefore not limited to "feeling" type people.
In martial arts, we can learn this completely separate to the technique, so when we come to learn the technique in one of the 3 intellectual ways, we have a non-intellectual mind and sensitive body that is in the best state to execute it. Personally, I see it as a life skill, not a martial arts skill, and therefore equally applicable to the equestrian world.
I was just trying to understand if that's where Amanda was coming from, and if its common or not amongst horsey people.
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