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Post by suewhitmore on Jul 23, 2007 18:01:14 GMT 1
I personaly do not wish to see any confrontation. Amanda, don't worry. We're all quite civilised - heated argument is about as bad it is likely to get, and *CERTAINLY NOT* when you are riding. When you get any group of highly opinionated people of roughly the same age, such as Heather , myself, Derek , Sylvia Loch, Max etc, we all enjoy a good battle of the words and wits and it does not mean we are at each other's throats. Far from it, it means we trust each other enough and value each others opinions enough to say what we want to say, straight out. We don't need to explain concepts, we have a common language there, we don't usually take things personally, we are discussing ideas and methods, not personalities. What is different is the approach. None are so hidebound that they don't listen and modify their own approach to include things they consider of value in someone else's way. We are going there to learn, evaluate and enjoy ourselves, not to start a war.
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Post by lucitania on Jul 23, 2007 19:46:59 GMT 1
I love the emoticons, where did you get them?
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joanne1
Elementary Poster
!!! Maddison & MaGIc !!!
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Post by joanne1 on Jul 23, 2007 20:58:11 GMT 1
rj THANKYOU
Some really good points in your reply i will have a go with Magic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Derek Clark
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Post by Derek Clark on Jul 23, 2007 21:29:06 GMT 1
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Post by suewhitmore on Jul 23, 2007 21:36:24 GMT 1
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Post by Amanda Dolby on Jul 23, 2007 21:39:03 GMT 1
Sue - yes and I'm in that opinionated age group too but .... oh you know what I mean I guess I just get fed up with folk casting judgement- and they do. ( was a bit upset with something else earlier too.. Just voicing openly - not looking for sympathy BTW It just reminds me of being back at school! I have a teenager at the moment that reminds me of the worst bits too. So I guess I'm just fragile and to be honest - "can't be A s*d with it" - a good further up north phrase. I guess I'm more a doer than a verbaliser at the end of the day. ( though I seem to be able to demonstrate and teach ok .... oh sigh go figure wheres that wine bottle? Thinking of bringing my little, plump croup high 13.2hh Dartmoor x ? Was upside down with no breaks to the clinic.. ah we'll see. Just don't laugh at us but your welcome to laugh with us. This equitation stuff is supposed to be fun!! ;D
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Post by Amanda Dolby on Jul 23, 2007 21:40:16 GMT 1
oo thanks I'm off to get some of those!
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HeatherL*
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Post by HeatherL* on Jul 23, 2007 21:46:55 GMT 1
Phew, what an awesome thread. There's just so much I don't know, and so little time available to learn it all!! I need more hours in the day, more money to enable me to travel and pay for clinics and demos, a horsebox to get to said clinics and for my horse to be somewhat further along in her education than just having been sat on twice for me to be able to join in! Hey ho!
Oh and by the way I prefer to long line :-)
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Post by suewhitmore on Jul 23, 2007 23:05:23 GMT 1
There's just so much I don't know, and so little time available to learn it all!! ;D I don't know anything either, I'm just really good at making it up as I go along ;D Seriously, there is no hurry. I always think that if I take away just *one* good thing from any training I do, it's been worth it. A lot of things just come together - a little bit here, a little bit there and suddenly, wow! there's half the jigsaw and you begin to see the whole picture. The most important thing is to learn to really observe, it helps you understand behaviour, conformation, gaits, training - everything. I was taught through a scientific education, but quite honestly, joining an art class would have the same effect. It's being able to see, if only dimly, what is really there, not what you expect to see. I remember (and this must 40 years ago) being told in an art lesson at school - "look at that shadow, what colour is it?" And it was not black, it was grey blue. We then had explanations about light and shadow, but for me the lesson was really look, don't assume. So the art in riding and training is like the colour of shadows, not black on white but a rainbow muted.
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Derek Clark
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Post by Derek Clark on Jul 24, 2007 11:23:38 GMT 1
Great answer Sue! I frequently feel like that HeatherL. The more I learn, the less I know. ;D One of the qualities that's needed to master anything is humility. Now often, that's taken to mean being "self-effacing", but they're not the same at all (go check in the dictionary... ) I believe that I've learned a lot about many things, and at the same time I don't know anything - in the grand scheme of things. We usually *see* what we think we already *know* - or how things relate to what we already*know*. Just like Sue explained about shadows, when we start really looking, we discover that what we thought we knew was just an illusion. Once we start that process, we can also discover that there are *always* deeper layers of detail that we can explore. An expert knows how to do something - a master knows many ways, a grand master knows... See what I mean? ;D The main thing most of us have to overcome is our reluctance to "not know" and just have a go in spite of that. We all do the best we can at the time with the tools we have available and we only learn by making attempts. The attempts that "fail" are just as valuable as the one that ultimately "succeeds". If your spirit is in the right place, you'll find the way! What is failure anyway ? It's just a human fantasy. I never fail, but I do discover zillions of ways of doing things that don't work! The only way to fail is to stop trying different ways... ;D Best wishes, Derek
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Post by rj on Jul 24, 2007 12:38:39 GMT 1
I understood every word of that Derek - & agree!
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Post by Zuzan on Jul 24, 2007 12:51:17 GMT 1
Completely but I think you also need to be able to analyse what you see.. to understand it.. and interpret... I don't have a photographic memory but I get (and can hold to certain extent) pictures really only when I have gone thro quite a lot of breaking them down and kind of taking things out and putting them back again..
similarly I need to know why something doesn't work as another way.. it is all part of the experiment
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Post by pinkpony on Jul 24, 2007 13:35:05 GMT 1
What a thread, read first few pages last week and book marked it so I can give my 2p worth. I prefer to long line, its the only method I have ever been shown and so its what I do. Im still a bit of a novice, but getting there. I like the results I have seen so far with LL, Have LL with 10 horses so far, 3 old pros, 1 reall young one and one very nervous, but they all were quite different to start with. A lunge line used when I ride at walk to practice strength and balance. Will read rest of thread, promise!! Good stuff.
Edit to say at work hence rushed reply.x.x.x.x
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Post by friesianfanatic on Jul 24, 2007 14:15:22 GMT 1
It HAS been a fantastic thread!! The only point I would want to make is both methods can be extremely valuable in trained hands but also detrimental in the wrong hands Personally I dont think there is enough GOOD tuition of Lunging / long-reining and therefore both systems can be much abused. Sadly I think lunging tends to be the worst out of the two as it is less complicated only having one rein so people just 'have a go' and the horse just runs around in a circle not doing much benefit I am afraid. After having a few lessons and watching an experienced and talented lunger / longreiner I was gobsmacked at how little I knew. I am still learning, but at least I am more aware of the pitfalls now so that is a big improvement for me! I think both methods have wonderful benefits when done correctly, although you can make the work more interesting with Long Reins by doing more schooling movements which is great for keeping the horse *thinking*.
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Derek Clark
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Post by Derek Clark on Jul 24, 2007 14:29:09 GMT 1
Hi all, I'd agree with fresianfanatic. My personal belief is that ALL methods, approaches, etc have their advantages and their problems. I think that's a reasonably "humble" way of proceeding. Perhaps the biggest danger to our horses would be to believe that any method, technique, etc has NO disadvantages or pitfalls... That sounds like a good recipe for really getting in trouble Best wishes, Derek ;D
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