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Post by taklishim on Dec 16, 2006 20:20:24 GMT 1
sorry Finn, another question! have you considered analysing your water supply? not sure what for, possibly Richard would be able to see something (appart from bugs of course) but if your horse is drinking the same water, day in day out it will be contributing to his mineral/nutrition uptake. I have noticed considerable improvements in my horse in the last 2/3 weeks that I have put down to starting yea sac. However I have also changed his water from spring supply acidic water (that eats copper pipes for a pastime) to borehole water from 100 feet down which may well be different. Sorry if this seems a daft suggestion but I have been in your position for a long time and know how it feels
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Post by fin on Dec 16, 2006 20:48:52 GMT 1
Lol! Is is frustrating, isn't it? Sometimes I feel like I need a degree in biology and another one in medical science......while everybody else I know is feeding their horse sugar-coated loopy cubes with extra sugar and the bugggers have never had a day's lameness in their lives Oh well ;D You know, I was thinking about the water supply today! I must have read your mind He's on standard tap water.....it's fairly ph neural though, verging on alkaline (too alkaline to water blue hydrangeas any how--they go purple!) so that does suggest it has a fair calcium content.....I wonder how much of the minerals in water can be absorbed by the horse? Even a very small amount could be contributing to the overall problem I guess....Where on earth would I get water analysed though? I think it might be worth doing, particularly since he gets his hay soaked in it..... Generally foodwise JJ gets as much soaked hay as he can eat (he and H get through a bale a day between them ), about half a scoop of unmollassed beet, three smallish handfuls of grass chaff, and sometimes a few handfuls of SS bluebag grass nuts (he likes to dig them out of the woodchip in the yard), along with Linseed, salt, Mag Ox, Aloe Vera juice, and Yea-Sacc. He was pretty stable on that for a few weeks, although he did seem to find it rather dull, poor chap. Still, it looks as though that's what he's going to be getting from now on! I might risk giving him NAF biotin--he's ok on that I think--along with some ALA or Vit E capsules. That should cover most of the things I was worried about. I reckon that given the amount of hay he can get through, even the hay we've got should provide enough protein, so hopefully that will be OK. I don't think he's going to enoy it though!!!!
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Post by taklishim on Dec 16, 2006 21:31:27 GMT 1
you can get water analysed at a public analaysts laboratory. On the bottom of our analysis it says "public analsyt, official agricultural analyst and scientific adviser for the county of Devon. If you cannot find yours in the yellow pages then possibly your county council will be the place to start asking. The analysis gives a breakdown of about 25 items and includes, ca, mg, K, Cu, Fe, Mn, P, Zn and others.
(interestingly our analysis from an acid source suggests we should run it through a column of calcined magnesium dolomite, seems like everyone likes calcined magnesium!)
If their entire water supply, drinking water and hay, comes from one source for a long period of time then it must surely affect their intake to some extent.
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Post by fin on Dec 16, 2006 22:14:13 GMT 1
Ooh, thanks for that. I shall go and investigate yell.com in a minute (house in chaos, Yellow Pages gone AWOL ). You'd have thought that some of the minerals would be absorbed by the horse, wouldn't you? I guess it depends what form they're in, though--I'm pretty sure the calcium in mineral water isn't absorbed by people, but I can't remember where I read that, nor why. So that's yet something else to investigate! ;D
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Post by Donny on Dec 17, 2006 0:17:19 GMT 1
evening finn,
had an exciting evening tonight. was unable to get B's feed changed this morning so his first feed without top spec balancer was this evening.
got to the yard about 7ish and put him out in the outdoor school for a bit of freedom and excercise whilst i mucked out. he went out fine, still sore and footy over hard ground although now point blank refusing to walk on rough stoney ground. put him in the school and he trotted off, rolled, usual stuff. went back after an hour expecting him to come to get caught as per norm. he came over took a sniff, threw his head back and galloped off round the school. he does occasionaly do this but relaxes after a few circles and 'joins up'. tonight he just kept going throwing in lots of bucks too (unusual). he then started displaying bouts of stallion like behaviour, trying to dominate me interspersed with periods of complete submissiveness. it was almost as though he was confused himself. it took me about 20 minutes to get close enough to attempt catching him, again he would have a sniff then trot off, almost as though he had lost total trust in me. after another 10 minutes of 'cat and mouse' i managed to calm him enough to get close and got his headcollar on. he then walked fine albeit gingerly back to his stable. in the stable he started to get quite aggressive both with me (changing his rugs) and eating his haynet.
he has never before displayed this aggressive almost vicious behaviour before in the 2 years i've had him. i look forward to the results of taking him off the balancer with extreme anticipation!
cheers donny
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Post by fin on Dec 17, 2006 0:34:51 GMT 1
Blimey, that's pretty alarming really. Is he turned out at all though ATM, if everything's so wet? I don't know whether that might be a potential cause of aggression and scarpering off too (he might not have wanted to go back into the stable after all ). I guess the only thing to do though is to drop the TS and see how he goes. Poor ned--doesn't sound like he's a happy bunny either JJ seemed to improve in about 24 hours so I wonder if your lad will be feeling less cross and out of sorts by tomorrow? Keep me posted!!!! I talked to my EP--until now he's never come across TS actually causing problems (though he isn't too keen on it--he's not a huge fan of over processed synthetic products ) and has lots of colleagues and clients who've had good results. He has decided to warn 'difficult cases' that it may not be entirely suitable for all horses, which seems to be the case with everything we're experiencing....
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Post by Donny on Dec 17, 2006 1:51:18 GMT 1
he's been in since tuesday, out for about an hour each day in the school. he's been in for long periods before, january for about 3 weeks with a foot abcess and a few shorter periods through the summer with no reactions like this although he does get depressed. tonight was completely different though, he just seemed to flip! hope to get him out in the next few days, dependent on how he is on his feet. the field is actually pretty good once you get through the sludge at the bottom, gentle sloping with reasonable drainage. oh and its finally stopped raining up here!
i too have heard great things about TS and it was recommended by others. as with everything though whats suitable for some isn't for others.
donny
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em&ed
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Post by em&ed on Dec 17, 2006 10:04:34 GMT 1
I am so glad have read this thread as I was about to contact my barefoot trimmer because my horse has been footsore for about the past week. He has never shown sign of being remotely sore since I've had him. I got a free sample of TopSpec anti lam from YHL and forgot about it, found it in my tack box and have been feeding a small amount per day (it was only in a container the size of a mug) for about the past couple of weeks or so - until it ran out a couple of days ago. He is still footsore but hopefully if it is the TopSpec he should return to normal. I will let you know.
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Post by Casper on Dec 17, 2006 13:09:00 GMT 1
Bobby is barefoot and Clover is unshod on the back. Both are on Top Spec Anti Lam and their feet are fab. In fact Bobby's feet improved beyond belief once we changed to the Top Spec. He was fully shod in those days, and even our grumpy farrier commented on the improvement.
I think there are lots of issues with grazing at the moment (I know your aren't on grass Finn, but lots of others are) as the grass is still growing although not many nutrients plus with lots of horses being kept in because of the weather (mine only averaging half day turnout at the moment) there could be imbalances caused by extra hay rather than grass etc.
Plus wet ground or little/no turnout can all affect horse's feet, it isn't necessarily the TS at all but the living conditions and/or changes in the living conditions which can possibly be causing or contributing to the problem.
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Post by fin on Dec 17, 2006 17:24:50 GMT 1
Yup, mine's definately not the grass, so that's one less thing I have to worry about ;D Today JJ was extremely happy--ran off with my coffee and drank half of it, then proceeded to play with the mug for the next fifteen minutes. He can now do a tight turn on a slate surface without having to lurch, too. So, phew! Prob sorted. But it'll be interesting to see whether emined and donny's neds come sound if nothing else except the TS changes. How are they doing, folks? H the stroppy pony I've now taken off the TS because having thought about it she did seem a bit more bitey and aggressive than usual, though that might have been because JJ was making her life miserable. At any rate I had a huge fight with her this morning when she was trying to overturn the wheelbarrow and trying to intimidate me when I objected, but she seems to have settled down fine now and was as civillised as she's ever likely to get this evening Pity THey both really liked the TS. Does anybody round here want half a bag of the stuff? Free to good home
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Post by Donny on Dec 18, 2006 1:39:44 GMT 1
was pushed for time today as i had to go to work, so didnt do much with him. he was ok in the stable when i went in. took him for a short walk round the farm (no time to put him in the school incase i couldn't catch him). he was still walking very gingerly although was happy to walk over the rough stoney ground when i asked him. should get a better picture of things tommorow night.
edited to add: this was roughly 24 hrs after his last feed containing TS so will probably take more time for the change to take effect
donny
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Post by fin on Dec 18, 2006 1:58:05 GMT 1
Sounds like a bit of progress, though. Fingers crossed for tomorrow!
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Post by Yann on Dec 18, 2006 13:17:07 GMT 1
Topspec definitely makes Rio grumpy (not chirpy and well) but I was able to offset that by adding magnesium. It didn't make Tess grumpy that I noticed but it did give her far too much energy for my purposes. They're both on Antilam now, I can't say I've noticed any correlation with footiness though.
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Dec 18, 2006 13:26:25 GMT 1
Interesting! I haven't had any hoof problems with TopSpec, actually seems to be doing some good. But Mia has been even more of a sh*t-stirrer than usual and a bit of an ASBO-pony. I'd put it down to a new horse arriving on the yard that she really hates but I did start feeding TopSpec about the same time so will be trying a few days without it.
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Post by nich on Dec 18, 2006 15:47:13 GMT 1
lets keep this thread going to see how we all progress with changes in routine. I have moved Dolce to anti lam with TS calmer, but not ridden her since. she was lovely in the field and stable, but that was just one day. Autumn has been on the anti lam for 2 months, no ts calmer. her feet are beautiful, EP very impressed. she is certainly 'full of it', but she gets very little excercise, and it's fab to have her like this considering she was lame for months. not spooky or aggressive though.
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