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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2006 13:12:54 GMT 1
One we turned away for winter and had to bring her back as it was simply shooting out of her. . One of my Shetlands was like this a few weeks ago..........antibiotics,worming(equest) and bringing in didn't stop it. Vet decided after bloods and poo testing/count it must be worms so told me to do a 5day panacur course which has done the trick! This probably isn't your problem but it is something to consider apparently it has been a wonderful year for worms.......warm/wet.
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Post by fin on Dec 14, 2006 13:14:57 GMT 1
Lol! I didn't give him any supplements for a good few months when he was on the hay I had before, which was very high protein. It must be said he went lame on that unsoaked mind you, even though it was only 7.5% sugars! So it may not be the Top Spec causing the problem here--or it's helping to make things worse, rather than being a cause in itself. Problem is the ned really does need antioxidants, something to keep his feet in good condition, and enough protein to stave off the laminitis......mind you I suppose even a full ration of TopSpec only provides 50g of protein, and the horse needs about 750g, so I suppose it's probably not worth feeding it purely for that. Same with the Total Eclipse really--can't feed enough of it to really make a difference protein wise Tho the ned did look very well on Total Eclipse when he had it (he just has the linseed now). I'll have to get the hay analysed after Christmas and see if I can use individual supplements to get the mineral ratios balanced. That's something to look forward to!
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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2006 13:20:07 GMT 1
Oh I must say I don't envy you Finn...................I'd be at a total loss and on another steep learning curve!!
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calli
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Andraste Sports Arabians
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Post by calli on Dec 14, 2006 13:35:41 GMT 1
Afraid I had nothing but trouble when I tried feeding TopSpec - had horses going loopy, going lame, bloating, all sorts! Not a fan of it at all!!
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Post by Val (Toons&co) on Dec 14, 2006 13:41:09 GMT 1
Yet another stupid question, but why can't you feed alfalfa? I used to feed Jaz alfalfa for extra proteins mixed and soaked and her (unmollassed) sugarbeet. The lads also get a bit in theirs.
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Post by Susan on Dec 14, 2006 14:00:24 GMT 1
I like June also feed Top Spec but I actually use Anti Lam and have done so for over a year now. I also use calmag on top.
I also soak hay normally, but havent soaked it after we had the frost last weekend. I simply wet it. So I have done similar to you only I use Anti lam. But also l;ike June the horses are very loose and also extremly wet, as the grass is so wet and lush. So I am going through far ,more bedding then normal from very loose poo and lots of wee.
I would ring Top Spec and speak to Nicola it only costs you the phone call and she is very helpful.
The problem there are other factors you may wel not be aware of, although you dont have your horse on grass. Did I miss why that is?
I use antilam not because Flynn is laminitic but more because he is a good doer and obviously higher risk. But find the balancer keeps his weight off more and use of that and calmag stops any silly behaviour I have had in the past. I only use half ration as well.
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Post by fin on Dec 14, 2006 14:21:22 GMT 1
Well, I don't feed alfalfa because it seems to bring his pulses up.....at any rate, they definately reduced when I took it out of his diet completely! I'm contemplating calling TopSpec to see if they have come across somethng similar....only problem is JJ's story now is so long and convoluted I think I'd probably put the poor girl to sleep before I finished Susan, he's not on grass because it was totally impossible to keep him pulse-free while he was on grass. Since he's been off grass, he's been getting progressively more sound, his feet have improved beyond recognition, but we've had to figure exactly what foods he can and can't tolerate. Cereal, alfalfa, unsoaked hay, haylage, and fruit are definately off the menu. In addition he has very stiff hindquarters that seem to affect his hind feet, which often do have slight pulses. He had a bout of lameness about six weeks back--due to dry hay--but has been mostly OK apart from erratic occasional pulses in his hinds from the body-balance problem....it's only this last week or so that he's been noticeably footy, and it's in his front feet as well. I'm beginnng to run out of other factors!!! It's definately not a sugar, or not only a sugar, problem, because Marksway haylage (2.5% sugars) triggered an attack, and so does alfalfa. Mineral balance seems to be the most likely cause ATM..... still, since someone in the States identified 200 possible triggers for laminitis (including eating caterpillars) I suppose I've got a lot of eliminating to go. Interestingly, and I'm not sure if this is due to the miserable weather or feeling ill or what, JJ's gotten very aggressive recently too. He has complete anxiety attacks if he can't see H, but otherwise he's bullying and attacking her more than usual. THis is normally what he does when he's about to get an attack of laminitis....but he also went for a mate of mine a few days ago--a real ears flat, going-for the throat bite. He normally only does this to my EP (unreasonable chap, insists on trimming feet and has to be punished ) so it's a bit out of character for him to take a swipe at someone he doesn't know and who's never annoyed him. Calli, what sort of 'going loopy' did you get? Anything like the above?
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calli
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Andraste Sports Arabians
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Post by calli on Dec 14, 2006 14:43:10 GMT 1
I had 2 endurance horses come down with lami. I also had problems with one of them suddenly becoming nervy and refusing to hack out alone! I had hunters acting like racehorses. 2 liveries also had problems with their usually 110% alrounders, one became agressive in the stable and the other was just jumping out of its skin and absolutely EVERYTHING!
Out of a yard of 30 horses at least half of them showed changes in behaviour, and not for the better! Nothing else had been changed in ANY of their routines - they were all either my own horses or full liveries so I had complete control over them.
I took them off the TopSpec without telling anyone and hey presto grooms and owners all started saying how the horses were back to their normal selves....!
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Post by fin on Dec 14, 2006 14:51:17 GMT 1
!!!!!!
Interesting! In a scary way.
Both of mine have been really jumpy too. I put that down to the wind and the storm damage we've had (their stables were badly damaged and they must have been petrified), but to be honest in general neither of them is afraid of ANYTHING......
Hmmmmmm........
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calli
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Post by calli on Dec 14, 2006 14:55:29 GMT 1
I think that any feed/product which is marketed as a good thing for all horses is wrong!
I was very surprised at how many horses reacted so badly but it has to be said that about 10 of them were absolutely fine on, however I will not take the chance of any of the lot I have now reacting badly so will not try it again!
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Post by fin on Dec 14, 2006 15:30:48 GMT 1
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Post by june on Dec 14, 2006 15:52:32 GMT 1
Finn, have you talked to Jackie Taylor? She's the resident expert on laminitis.
Mandal, thanks for the advice. She was wormed with equimax just prior to going onto the winter pasture and started scouring about 10 days later. Happily things have now returned to normal. This horse came to us as a "rescue" and she has never done well over winter with her previous owner so I suspect she may have gut damage from worms in the past. I suspect she is very sensitive to changes in diet/environment because of that. Bringing her in at night and making sure she was getting plenty of fibre seemd to do the trick.
It is interesting that poeple find horses goiing loopy on Top Spec. It is the highest specification vitamin and mineral supplement around. Total Eclipse is just seaweed, soya and linseed so isn't a broad spectrum supplement. We've never had a problem with it and our 28 polo ponies are all on it and have been for the last 3 years. With the rapid grass growth at the moment it could be a lack of magnesium that is making horses loopy or maybe some horses are sensitive to something in Top Spec. It is hard to tell what is causing it without having the hay and rations analysed and the diet balanced for the horse which works out as a relatively expensive option!
For anyone having trouble with the product they really should give Nicola Tyler a call at Top Spec. She is very helpful and i'm sure she'd be keen to know if their products are causing problems.
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calli
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Andraste Sports Arabians
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Post by calli on Dec 14, 2006 15:59:27 GMT 1
I probably should have added that all the hay/haylage was batch tested - every batch and the diets for all the horses were worked out by an Equine Nutritionist - as all the horses were in hard work and competing regularly at the top ends of their disciplines we had to very careful that everything was 'just right'....
In the same way I know of about 6 PtoP yards near me who all had horses tie up BADLY on Blue Chip yet other racehorse trainers swear by it........ horses for courses!
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Post by june on Dec 14, 2006 16:14:18 GMT 1
Blue Chip is cereal based so could easily be responsible for tying up.
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k
Intermediate Poster
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Post by k on Dec 14, 2006 16:51:30 GMT 1
Sorry going off subject alittle, But its funny you should say about horses going loopy I have just finished my first bag of Baileys low cal and all mine are feeling a little to well shall we say! Jumping and trying to bolt and every opportunity, this is not the norm at all!!
Kx
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