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Post by ba on Nov 15, 2014 11:29:39 GMT 1
I can't thank you guys enough, this thread has been so helpful to me. Hopefully the Succeed and Mycosorb A+ will arrive in a day or two. I have also started feeding 50% dry hay to 50% soaked, he was previously on 100% soaked. This is on vets advice to help with hind gut motility.
My yard is worming for encysted this weekend and I'm not sure what to do, why is the rationale not to worm? Is it to avoid the additional toxins? Sorry for yet another question. I am reading everything I can get my hands about this, but talking about it is also very very helpful to me.
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Post by taklishim on Nov 15, 2014 12:13:23 GMT 1
I wormed mine a week before it happened. There was nothing else to put my problems down , mycotoxins obviously, but no other actual trigger. The continuing colic put him on the ground in a lot of pain and he had to go to vet hospital as an emergency. (on a Sunday so he certainly chose his time) To start with I wondered if he had worms and if the wormer had dealt with the worms which were now producing colic. Continual worm counts afterwards (and he was counted for several years before) showed that it was very unlikely he had a worm burden. I did therefore consider if the chemical wormer itself (eqvalan duo so it had 2 chemicals in it) could have irritated an already sore gut wall.
He was scanned several times whilst at vet clinic. There was inflamation of the bowel wall.
When he came home (Oct) I asked about worming as I was considering equest for encysted in a few weeks and the vets advised not to worm at least until the spring with equest. Presumably to avoid upsetting an already inflamted gut wall.
I know encysted don't show on a worm count but do you have worm counts and are you in the situation whereby he is usually <50 like many horses and you are therefore doing encysted because that is what everyone in your yards does in November? I am not saying encysted are unimportant, they are. In your situation however it may pay to be over cautious and to let it go for a while maybe even a few months. I didn't do equest even the following spring as it took a long while to get him stabilised.
Those are my thoughts ie don't make a difficult situation potentially worse unless there is a very good reason to do so. Hope that helps.
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Post by taklishim on Nov 15, 2014 12:17:11 GMT 1
sorry cannot work out how to edit but I meant to say that your vets must have considered worms ten times over by now as the cause of this. Do they think you have a worm problem or have they ruled it out as a possible cause of the colic. If they have ruled it out it would add weight, in my mind, to the arguement of leaving him and letting his gut try to heal itself.
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Post by ba on Nov 16, 2014 23:27:30 GMT 1
Yes worms have been ruled out, I worm count including tapeworm and results have always been clear. I took him for a little walk around the block today. I was worried sick that it would make him colic but if he has a hind gut motility issue, exercise is a good thing. He was fine! It's so hard to judge what to do for the best.
Another query, his gut sounds are always very loud - is this a good/bad thing?
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Post by alonerawnut on Nov 17, 2014 1:08:09 GMT 1
I've just recently watched the Horse & Country 'Vet Essentials' episode on Colic: the vet on there said that the gut sounds should normally be quite quiet but audible all round: very loud sounds or areas without sound indicate issues. However, I suppose if his 'normal' is always very loud, then it would be hard to tell if it was a flare-up or just normal for him.
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Post by janwilky on Nov 17, 2014 9:16:57 GMT 1
My old chap who is a cribber has very loud gut sounds, he's never colicked but I do suspect he has gut issues and I treat him as though he does, though he never looks uncomfortable.
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Post by taklishim on Nov 17, 2014 9:46:44 GMT 1
I've just recently watched the Horse & Country 'Vet Essentials' episode on Colic: the vet on there said that the gut sounds should normally be quite quiet but audible all round: very loud sounds or areas without sound indicate issues. However, I suppose if his 'normal' is always very loud, then it would be hard to tell if it was a flare-up or just normal for him. I have usually found that very loud is more indicative of problems. Is he passing the gas? This is very much what Rupert has. I haven't been able to pinpoint a reason for it and neither did the vet clinic. I suspect these are horses where you could do millions of tests and never really reach an answer. For Rupert the stabilising answer seems to be his supplements. When he comes in from grass I give him charcoal. This seems to be important for him to deal with the gas. I think you are trying to improve digestion in the hindgut. Rupert is exercised ridden each day. Are you on the phoenix horse forum? If not Jan can get you there. Although it is about barefoot horses that doesn't really matter as we went into the problems of Rupert/Lucas (Jan's horse) and others with similar problems to this a year ago to try and exchange ideas. It may be worth reading. We found a lot of similar problems at this time last year.
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Post by marychick on Nov 18, 2014 10:53:06 GMT 1
Sorry slightly off topic but ba where did you order your Mycosorb A+ from?
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Post by janwilky on Nov 18, 2014 12:07:48 GMT 1
Sorry slightly off topic but ba where did you order your Mycosorb A+ from? I got mine from Pro Earth on ebay but they're currently not listing it (I've e-mailed to ask why and if they'll be stocking it again). Intelligent Horsecare have it though: intelligenthorsecare.co.uk/horsecare-products/
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Post by marychick on Nov 18, 2014 13:11:13 GMT 1
yes I looked on Pro Earth and couldn't find it. Would be interested to hear their response. I settled for the normal mycosorb from forage plus but will check out Intelligent Horsecare next time- thanks janwilky!!
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Post by ba on Nov 18, 2014 14:22:56 GMT 1
Thanks for that, no I'm not on the pheonix forum but will definitely go and have a look :-)
Charcoal sounds like a good idea? Do you feed natural rather than activated? I think a lot of his problems are gas well as possible low motility and toxins.
I'm learning so much, I do hope I can help my boy - he started on Succeed today......
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Post by ba on Nov 18, 2014 14:47:54 GMT 1
Marychick - I ordered it from intelligent horse care. Just waiting for it to arrive x
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Post by taklishim on Nov 18, 2014 19:03:26 GMT 1
Thanks for that, no I'm not on the pheonix forum but will definitely go and have a look :-) Charcoal sounds like a good idea? Do you feed natural rather than activated? I think a lot of his problems are gas well as possible low motility and toxins. I'm learning so much, I do hope I can help my boy - he started on Succeed today...... I use equimins activated charcoal. I find it works but it is a case of reading up about natural and activated to decide which you prefer. It is said that charcoal removes things such as minerals from the system as well as toxins. I haven't found that and I have been using it for a long time but I separate the charcoal. ie morning I would feed his mineral supplement and 12 hours later at night I would give the charcoal. I give the charcoal at night as this is after he comes in from grass for the night. I stop the charcoal if I worm and I would keep it very seperate if I was feeding bute or prascend etc. If you were giving antibiotics or other vet medicine I think you would have to stop the charcoal until the medication was over. www.stablelabel.co.uk/ there is a lot of info on this site about colic etc that may give you some ideas. good luck
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Post by janwilky on Nov 18, 2014 19:30:02 GMT 1
I had a reply from Pro-earth this afternoon: Hi Jan. We are awaiting a new delivery, hopefully arriving in the next few days.
It has always been a slow seller, so we got taken by surprise as its been going like hot cakes.....
We should have it back in in the next few days.
Sorry about this....
Taklishim I think you and I might be to blame for the hot cakes effect, perhaps they would like to give us extra Curly Wurleys next time we order I've fed charcoal too ba, I weighed up the options and went for natural but as Taklishim says you'll have to make your own mind up. I partly decided that because the Fine Fettle charcoal is packaged and despatched locally by special needs workers. A friend of mine supervises them so I got free delivery via my yoga class!!
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Post by ba on Nov 29, 2014 11:29:52 GMT 1
Thought I'd post a quick update, I've been keeping him off the grass as much as possible and he has completed the loading dose of succeed - so far so good. He has had a couple of days were he has been a bit 'off' but no-one on my yard thought he was! Either I'm imaging it or I'm getting more atune to how he us feeling.
I am having a problem with the Mycosorb, he won't touch it! Has anyone else had this problem?
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