Colic again, help

[ba]

My pony has had colic again for the fourth time in 10 months, the last bout was may. This was by far the worst episode and he has been an in-patient at the vets since Tuesday. I am hoping he can come home today. He is not impacted and a test for sand colic came back clear, full blood count is clear, LFT's and kidney function screen are both normal, worm count clear, just waiting for tapeworm test results, although he was clear for tapeworm in June. Rectal was NAD. He has been put on psyllium for possible sand colic as a precaution ( I give global herbs clear out every 8 weeks too) and we are waiting for a date for an endoscopy to check for stomach ulcers. Although I would be surprised if it was a stomach ulcer as he has none of the risk factors. Why does this keep happening, he is only 8. I need to get to the bottom of it, all suggestions welcomed.

[mjcssjw2]

ba, oh dear, I am sorry but I can't really help other than to say that my horse has had ulcers and didn't appear to have the risk factors, certainly didn't look like a typical ulcer candidate - was in fact looking very very well. He did colic with it, but it wasn't your typical colic and didn't involve any vet stays for the colic. The gastroguard stopped all symptoms immediately - is it worth a try?
Hope you get to the bottom of it.

[ba]

Thank you, that's actually really helpful :-) I hope that he does have as ulcer, any diagnosis would be welcome at this point as at least them we could treat it.

Do you mind telling me more about your horse and how his symptoms/colic presented?

My boy is a traditional Irish cob, out 24/7, a leisure horse (big pet!) doesn't compete, field companion doesn't change, he has a 100% fibre diet, gets global herbs prebioherb supplement, on soaked hay. I'm just at a loss. I've had him for 3 years and this only started 10 months ago.

[wills]

No advice but hope you get to the bottom of it soon.

[hislordshipsmum]

Harry is also an Irish Cob and has had colic attacks over the last 13 years since I got Harry he was about 7/8 years old at the time; these have reduced as and when we got him into better condition and started to understand his problems. He used to windsuck/crib which added to the stress of his tummy problems (doesn't crib/windsuck at all now!) and although has not been tested to see if he has an ulcer, we think this is the most likely reason for the colic attacks. I have him on Ulcer Calm and probiotics which have helped immensely. His colic attacks can range from a little upset tummy lasting a few minutes (vet not required), to over 20 minutes which is when I have to call the vet out (this is all under vet instructions from when we first had these problems) vet generally only has to give pain killers/relaxant injection and all is well. He used to have these little colic attacks quite regularly but have gradually reduced to once a year.

Also found that he suffered from tapeworm (don't think he had been wormed properly before I got him) so we worm him for this March/November time and this has also helped. I have a worming programme set up by the vets, so that they have a record of everything so can monitor when he has colic.

Unfortunately he did have a major attack last March (worse ever), lasted for over 2 hours and he had to have his stomach emptied via a tube through his nose, and vet totally mystified at what had caused it, felt it wasn't the "normal". Also had a little attack after he had his tooth out (summer), which I think was due to the trauma and drugs he was on at the time. Any change to his routine ie change of grass/food etc can trigger an attack, so I make sure any changes are gradual and increase his powders at the "danger" time to help him cope.

Hope you can find out what is causing your pony's colic, keep a record of when and what has been happening at the time/treatment and hopefully you'll build up a history that can help in the future. Good luck.

[janwilky]

So sorry to hear this ba, it must be very distressing for you both.

This time last year I was going through a massive learning curve about ulcers, part of which was the realisation that they don't have to have any of the traditional 'risk factors' to have an ulcer problem! After five years of trying to get to the bottom of really quite severe behavioural and low-level soundness issues with Lucas - also an Irish cob - it became apparent through a discussion on another forum that he might have ulcers. I was in denial to start with as he had none of the oft-cited symptoms, he's a very good doer, lives out on a forage-based diet etc etc. He's never colicked, his main 'symptom' was intermittently massively explosive behaviour (which nearly got me killed) and a general underlying grumpiness/awkwardness which didn't improve with training - and I'd had a LOT of good professional help with him and had been on a huge learning curve myself.

I decided not to have him scoped at the time, partly because I'd simply run out of funds and partly because I didn't want to put him through more stress, but I decided to try a new (to horses) but very old (to humans) herbal treatment called Chios mastiha. If this didn't work my next option might have been Gastroguard, but it did work - it changed his temperament, he became much more relaxed and biddable, he no longer feels like an unexploded bomb and he isn't grumpy any more. One of the biggest changes was to the way he moves - he suddenly looked spectacular when trotting across the field as his movement was much more free and powerful, and surprisingly elegant for such a big horse. He can go into canter without having to buck into it, and his canter is much 'longer' and less bouncy/tight if that makes sense. He always used to look cross when cantering, even when loose in the field: it's no wonder I kept getting bucked off! I've only ridden him bareback so far but I felt safer on him than I think I ever have in five years. I'm not sure whether I'll need to repeat the treatment yet, but it's about eight months since I did the four-week treatment and he seems fine so far.

I think in your position I wouldn't be using something so untested though, but definitely worth getting him scoped and GG if he does have ulcers.

One of the things I learned was that once a horse has an ulcer it doesn't necessarily heal by itself, even with a positive change in lifestyle/handling etc. So the root cause could go back years and could be as simple as being transported a long distance, or spending a winter stabled.... many, many things can cause ulcers. I suspect with Lucas that it went back to his early life/handling which I have reason to believe may have been less than ideal - and, of course, like all Irish horses he was then transported here by boat and road. And some horses with ulcers are obsessive eaters, because they are desperate to keep their belly full as it's painful when their stomach is empty and the acid sloshes around - I've never known a horse who can demolish a haynet as fast as Lucas can, and if I double-up the haynets to slow him down he simply rips the nets to pieces!! 

Whatever happens, I do hope you get to the bottom of it.

[portiabuzz]

Am really really sorry to hear this x x

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[mjcssjw2]

some of what Jan says applied to my horse as well, he had a massive tantrum when his 'colicky'pain started, so much so I wasn't sure I could keep him in the stable, it always happened when we brought him in to ride or for his tea. He would just kick off big style.
He like Lucas can eat a hay net at the speed of light - he even surprised the vet when he went for scoping, they starve them beforehand - he gave him a net after that didn't last at all long.
He seems to eat slower if I give him the hay loose, there is much less snatching and grabbing involved in the eating process he gets worse if I double net or use a trickle net.
He has never looked thin or poor, never at that point made a fuss about being saddled or girthed up or ridden.
The vet kept treating for the colic ever night when we brought him in, he seemed absolutely fine in the field and never had a colic whilst out.
The vet suggested not bringing him in - he had a paddy as his routine was changed and went mental in the field.
He eventually said try the gastroguard after many evening visits! when the gastroguard helped -we scoped him.
Don't know if any of that helps :-)

[janwilky]

Oct 24, 2014 13:53:43 GMT 1 mjcssjw2 said:

He seems to eat slower if I give him the hay loose, there is much less snatching and grabbing involved in the eating process he gets worse if I double net or use a trickle net.

Tricklenet was destroyed in six weeks flat! I still struggle with the frantic eating, he's a horse who will get fat given half a chance, he isn't in proper work but to stay well and happy he needs to eat more or less constantly. We're on hay from now onwards and I can't feed it from the ground as the monster just tramples it into the mud and wees on it! The best compromise I've come up with so far is moderately small-holed nets (Shires ones) with a weighed amount of hay and I'm thinking of trying some barley or oat straw this year which they can have ad lib. I would feed loose if I could though.

[mjcssjw2]

Hi Jan, i have fed weighed hay and adlib dampened straw when necessary, the straw was netted to avoid the stamping in and peeing upon.
He doesn't ever stamp and pee on his hay though :-)
Just goes to show they are all individuals.
Jan he did eat the yard hay munching record when we had him truly adlib just after the ulcers were diagnosed and they had to come in at night.
The only thing that does occur to me is that the ulcers did occur after I had to have my other horse put down, though he was never in the field alone, so wonder if thats what prompted the ulcers in the first place.

[happysnail]

Not something I have any experience of but I wanted to send a hug (I'm sure you've been worried sick) and I hope he feels better soon. x

[ba]

Sorry for not replying sooner, been really busy looking after my poorly pony. I'm still at a loss as to why he keeps getting colic. Tapeworm test has now come back clear. He has had a course of Sand Shifter as a precaution and I've dropped a poo sample off at the vets this evening for re-testing. I am hoping that the endoscopy will be arranged for next week. If that comes back clear I really don't know what to do. Why is he colicking so much - any suggestions/ advice will be greatly appreciated. I don't know if any of you remember my old pony Maddie - 14.2 bay welsh Sec d, I used to put pics of us competing in WH on here. I lost her to colic and the thought of it happening again makes me feel ill.

[portiabuzz]

Ba I'm so sorry that this is happening. I hope there is light at the end of the tunnel you are in. Sorry I can't be of help x

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[jennyb]

Jan's post is very good. They have found ulcers in brood mares living out at grass! Gazdag has them too and gets grumpy and unpredictable during a flare up. It's certainly worth investigating.

[ba]

Thanks again guys, I'm hoping he will be scoped next week and at this stage a diagnosis of stomach ulcers would be welcomed so I can treat him and at least know what I'm dealing with. Jenny, do you mind telling me how you managed Gazdags ulcers?