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Post by ladyndibs on Nov 15, 2011 5:54:03 GMT 1
I bought my mare back in March, after the initial couple of weeks became much less compliant and seemed a bit nervous but as a very nervous rider I was still happy to ride her out a few times. Due to my gelding having severe 'spring fever' and seperation issues I couldn't ride her for a while so I spent time getting to know her and things were going well, I managed to stop her trotting off immediately I was on her and rode her round the field a few times. We seemed to be bonding though she is far more nervous than I realised but gradually got to the stage where she would follow me about, mainly cupboard love I know but she was starting to come down to the gate to meet me Because she was so jumpy she was on a tiny feed with magnesium added but as she was settling I stopped the magnesium with no significant change in her. Then things got really strange, I had the opportunity of Lady being used as a case study by a trainee animal communicator. I had no thoughts either way if it worked, though not everything was spot on there were a couple of significant things that made me think that it could be Lady that the person was describing. We chatted on 28th Oct, I explained that Lady was nervous and that if there was one thing I wanted her to know it was that I would never hurt her. The trainee tried compassionate release and I went down the field shortly after. Lady seemed a little more nervous than usual but nothing major but as I was taking off her headcollar she suddenly spooked, leapt on my foot and knocked me flat on my back. I calmly went after her and managed to get her head collar on and just made lots of fuss of her. The following day she was quite nervous and I put her back on magnesium, over the next couple of days she seemed to settle a bit again and I took her saddle down, I had been regularly trying to lie across her back but am not tall enough to get my full weight on her back without a stirrup or leg up. I got my foot in the stirrup and she started to move off I asked her to whoa and she did and I took my foot out of the stirrup, I don't know if the stirrup touched her side but she suddenly spun round and tried to run off, luckily I slid down and was only kicked in the other foot and held onto her. we had a little walk in hand, I took her saddle off made a fuss of her then popped it back on, not done up but just so that we ended with her wearing it but quite happy. By 8th Nov 10 days after she knocked me down she was a nervous wreck, BlazeJas'smum came over and despite all the right body language it took ages for Lady to allow her close enough to touch her, the big re-assurance was that when she was frightened she was coming towards me as if she wanted my protection so at least she wasn't scared of me, just scared. BlazeJas'smum suggested I double her magnesium and see if that would help which I started doing that day. The following day I had a conversation with another trainee communicator who was also doing case studies, she found it incredibly difficult to get through to Lady but again there seemed to be a few key points that fitted, so after getting her initial impressions we chatted about Lady and I explained the change over the recent days, This communicator then suggested she try again and would call me back. She finally made a much stronger connection with Lady and said that Lady had said she was frightened of the fireworks but had also tried compassionate release and felt she had got somewhere with her, again the big thing I wanted her to know was that I would never hurt her. I went down the field that day and was met by a completely differant horse, she was walking towards the gate to meet me, ambling along her head fairly low and her body language quite relaxed, I made a fuss of her and she followed me to her shelter like a giant great dane. I won't waffle for ages about the huge change but every day since she has come down to meet me, she has stopped shaking when I get near her almost thrusts her nose in her head collar, when I ask her she walks right up to me and will give me kisses. Lady still won't allow my husband close though finally yesterday she did let him stroke her but there was a lot of snorting and some panic but I didn't hold her tight, she had a loose rope so she could walk off if she wanted to so still more progress. If you've made it this far pour yourself another stiff drink  Now the big question, was it the increase in magnesium that changed her, bearing in mind she is still scared of everyone else or was it the animal communicator making it clear I wouldn't hurt her. I would love to hear your thoughts as I'm still uncertain but just glad Lady is no longer petrified of me. |
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Post by nich on Nov 16, 2011 13:02:56 GMT 1
maybe I'm a sceptic, but I have had great results from magnesium with my sensitive mare, and i can't get my head around being a 'trainee' animal communicator. I can 'get' that some people are incredibly sensitive and open and can maybe share feelings with a horse, but a trainee? my vote is for the mag, but whichever it is, I'm glad for you!
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Post by Anne_Oxfordshire on Nov 17, 2011 17:51:09 GMT 1
I've also had problems with my Lady being very nervous and spooky and I've just spent a year trying to figure out why. It's a long story which I won't recount all of now, but just wanted to say that I've found magnesium to be key with her. Previously I had been giving magnesium supplements and calmers from the local country store. I tried NAF Magic and Equine America Magnitude but I didn't find they made any difference to her behaviour. My EP recommended I talk to Trinity Consultants and they sent me their MagFluid to try, which is a very readily available source of magnesium. Since being on that Lady's been much more relaxed. So maybe give that a try if you get desperate!
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Post by ladyndibs on Nov 17, 2011 18:18:50 GMT 1
A week on from starting double dose magnesium we haven't had any more huge improvements just little bits each day, we are still a long way off from how she was but we are getting there, she seems a bit more 'normal' not quite so dependant on me and definately a little more confident, I don't doubt magnesium plays a big part but I still struggle with the timing and the fact that she was only ever on single dose or not having any at all when she was at her calmest, no matter the reason it was lovely for my OH to get close enough to touch her without her snorting shaking and trying to run away, did take three days though. If she continues to improve I will stick with magnitude but if we start to falter again I will be giving Magfluid a try, thanks for the tip.
With regard to the 'trainee' part I think I probably used the wrong term as both communicators have worked with animals but not just with pictures and it was more their technique over the telephone etc that they were being mentored about. I hope nothing I've said has been interpreted as derogatory as it wasn't meant that way.
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Post by outoftheblue on Nov 17, 2011 18:52:12 GMT 1
This mare might just be taking her time to get to know and trust you. Some horses need an incredible amount of time and patience. I like Relax Me as a calmer as it acts on the digestive system and I have had very good results with it. However, I think you just have to spend as much time as you can, be patient and things ill come right. I hope they do for you.
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Post by annabelle h on Nov 17, 2011 19:15:58 GMT 1
To put the magnesium into perspective - Magnitude contains 2.7g per dose, I have recently had a nutritionist calculate what my horse needs, and it's more like 20g per day. If magnesium is an issue I think you are far better off buying straight magnesium oxide or Magfluid.
To be honest, I think you really need to do the Perfect Manners exercises and if possible get a lesson from an RA to help you and your horse become confident in one another. It will help to sort out all sorts of problems before they arise. I have known some communicators to be helpful and accurate, but not many, but I would definitely recommend the Perfect Manners/RA route as a first port of call to help your horse.
Good luck with her,
Annabelle
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Post by ladyndibs on Nov 17, 2011 19:37:39 GMT 1
Some time ago I did start working through the perfect manners book with Lady but with her suddenly becoming a nervous wreck a couple of weeks ago we had to go back quite a long way. Despite everything once she has her head collar on or I have actually starting touching her she stands for her feet and to be fussed over, I don't tie her or hold the rope it just lays across her neck and after a couple of minutes she starts relaxing, since last week she's actually started getting a bit cheeky again, giving out kisses in the hopes she get a treat or a rub. I know an RA is a good move but I am often nervous and when I see someone else doing so well it tends to further knock my confidence as I then manage to convince myself I can't do the same so I felt at least initially it was something Lady and I had to get over together and though we had a major set back we didn't go right back to the beginning and are moving forward a little bit each day.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 9:31:17 GMT 1
I know an RA is a good move but I am often nervous and when I see someone else doing so well it tends to further knock my confidence as I then manage to convince myself I can't do the same so I felt at least initially it was something Lady and I had to get over together and though we had a major set back we didn't go right back to the beginning and are moving forward a little bit each day. Please don't feel put off calling out an RA because you are nervous. That's exactly what we are good at - nervous horses and nervous people! It would never be a case of walking in, showing you how marvellous we could be and then leaving you feeling worse than you did before. With all due respect to animal communicators and those who believe, I've yet to encounter a situation where the communicator has been the answer to a problem. You may or may not find things that fit the scenario but that stil doesn't solve the fact that the horse is worried by something. You still have to do something about it. Magnesium can cause behavioural problems and a supplement can help in some cases but only if there is a magnesium deficiency in the first place. If there is no deficiency, you will see no difference. If you tried mag to no effect, it would indicate there is probably no deficiency. There are various possibilities as to the cause of Lady's nervousness. It could be her temperament and that she needs more support from you, it could be ulcers or some other pain issue, it could be past experiences. I personally wouldn't like to guess from here. Again, with all due respect to BlazeJas'smum, I really do think you should call an RA. I'm not sure how much training and experience you've had, BJM, but I'm sure you won't mind if I say that the RAs have seen so many of this type of problem that it's easier for us to pick up what's going on and also to have the right tools to help both horse and owner. And that last bit is important, we are there for you too. I can only think of one case where I have left a yard without making sure the owner could do what I'd achieved with the horse and that was when she'd sat with her iPhone and friend for the 2 hours I'd worked, then dismissed what I'd done as not solving the problem (she couldn't get her horse in the stable - the set up was the problem, horse over the aisle bit her bum as the mare walked in, but they wouldn't think about changing the setup. I managed to teach her to back in quite happily but that wasn't good enough. Hence not bothering to teach her how to do it). We always make sure we leave you with the knowledge and support to be able to progress. We would never criticise you for being nervous or for missing something. Seriously, you wouldn't believe the number of wet shoulders I've had from people who never thought they'd be able to do it but could within a fairly short space of time. Enough of the hard sell. Just trust me, you'll not regret it. |
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Post by ladyndibs on Nov 18, 2011 9:56:25 GMT 1
Lizp thank you for taking the time to reply in such depth, I'll pm you later, just had a call got to take my daughter to the hospital
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Post by nich on Nov 18, 2011 13:42:55 GMT 1
but, LizP, not all magnesium is equal - if you have tried it and it didn't work, it may not have been enough/an accessible source for your horse. Like Anne-galaxy-lady, i had tried others but only trinity's magfluid works for me. I'm not saying it is a cure-all, i have also had an RA, and just spent time getting to know my mare and what works for her, but I can assure you that magfluid made a difference to Brio, after all the ground work etc. had been invested in.
and she may have further issues as you say...but horses are complex animals, and a sensitive mare could need work on many levels.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 17:07:02 GMT 1
I know not all magnesium supplements are the same, Nich, and I didn't say that this was 100% ruled out. I said "it would indicate there is probably no deficiency". Maybe I should better have said "would indicate there is probably no deficiency enough to be the cause of these problems". You are lucky that you found what worked for your horse. As I know you know, though, what works for one won't necessary work for another (which is a shame because life would be so much simpler if it did!). From both my personal and professional experience, though, there are more horses who have one or more of a raft of other problems than have behavioural issues due to magnesium deficiency. In fact off the top of my head I can't think of one I've worked with where magnesium, in any form, was the only answer to a problem and only a handful where it really helped at all, despite our initial (wish related?) belief that it did at the start. This, of course, goes along with what you are saying in, that "horses are complex animals, and a sensitive mare could need work on many levels". That may or may not include magnesium. From the OP's post, though, I would say it almost certainly will include some good groundwork and relationship building. My point, then, is that I wouldn't spend any more money on supplements now, but instead would focus on other possible causes. Yes, if you do the groundwork and get your body language etc right, get other things checked out, and are still running a blank, then it is probably worth going back to magnesium but trying a different formulation. Just to sidetrack onto magnesium deficiency in general, and it might be worth starting a thread in its own right when I have a moment, if you google magnesium deficiency in horses, you'll find a whole stack of links, mostly from feed companies, supplement suppliers, etc. Call my an old cynic, but doesn't that set a little bell ringing somewhere? It does of course suit them for us to believe that mag. will calm our spooky horse. The reality, though, is that these horses are very often in pain, have fears, are not getting good leadership, are confused, etc. That doesn't sell expensive supplements though, does it? Again, I'm not saying that mag. deficiency doesn't exist - it clearly does. I'm just saying I think it's being oversold as The Cause of spookiness when it's not, and that it's not usually the top of my list. I hope that clarifies.  And yes, Ladyndibs, drop me a PM. I'm happy to try and help. |
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Post by medicinepony on Nov 18, 2011 18:14:24 GMT 1
I think getting someone out would be really helpful in this situation
magnesium can be really goog but only if there was a deficiency to begin with
most of the issues are down to trust and you have already recognised this, many horses with such major trust issues need any training objectives broken down into tiny steps with lots of waiting for relaxation in between an RA or other professional would help identify this
Animal communication is very useful for working out what issue is affecting a horse and while a good communicator can project a thought of the owner not intending harm, horses only think about now and will not carry that thought forward into the future
one thing that may have worked in your favour was the day your horse spooked and accidently hurt you, you responded positively by not hurting her so in that respect you deepened the level of trust.
rather than set up lots of dangerous situations in order for you to prove your worth a well worked out programme with a trainer who will work with you and show you when to ask, when to wait and when to release will see your relationship improve dramatically. make sure they work with you, no point in a trainer solving a problem if they on't show you how to do it when they are not around
keep going the journey will be worth it
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Post by ladyndibs on Nov 27, 2011 11:16:17 GMT 1
Just thought I'd do a quick update, Lady has calmed down a tremendous amount, she's now on triple dose magnesium, coincedence? not sure. She has improved little by little each day, but still not quite back to where she was though is more confident and relaxed. I've also got an RA coming out Thursday which I'm really looking forward to especially as BlazeJas'smum is coming over so there will be an extra pair of eyes and ears as I'm bound to forget a lot.
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Post by sned on Nov 27, 2011 13:55:13 GMT 1
Ladynibs overdosing on magnesium can lead to heart problems and all sorts if you are using a calmer as apposed to pure mag ox it may be that there is something herbal giving this effect. I use pure mag ox I buy from pro earth on e-bay I give it to my little welsh as he is prone to laminitus and give a half dose to my fell as he does become very spooky without it and I have done lots of confidence building and spook busting which worked brilliantly but I still felt he could be a little on edge so tried magnesium and it worked I have tried to do without it a couple of times and he starts spooking at things he usually wouldnt bother about so he is now on a constant half dose.
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Post by mandal on Nov 27, 2011 14:58:54 GMT 1
Just thought I'd do a quick update, Lady has calmed down a tremendous amount, she's now on triple dose magnesium, coincedence? not sure. She has improved little by little each day, but still not quite back to where she was though is more confident and relaxed. I've also got an RA coming out Thursday which I'm really looking forward to especially as BlazeJas'smum is coming over so there will be an extra pair of eyes and ears as I'm bound to forget a lot. Good news and good luck. I know you will enjoy the RA visit and learn loads. You may need to reduce the magnesium after a few weeks. Runny poos can be a sign that not such a dose is needed. Some horses seem to need a high maintenance dose of 20 gms. Pure magnesium is definitely a better way to give it. Cal mag is a cheaper option. |
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