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Post by misty on Dec 22, 2009 23:09:10 GMT 1
OH and I watched this on Monday on the tv, I said to OH there will be comment about this on the forum and not complimentary. Thank you SS3 for some old fashioned common sense from a some one who have met the horses. Having four horses and a dog I also agree with your last comment.
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Post by circusdancer on Dec 22, 2009 23:52:01 GMT 1
JFP's horses have always made me shift uneasily in my seat. I accidentally found this link on youtube after seeing his act a couple of times. Aside from the body language already discussed, one horse gives the game away for me. www.youtube.com/watch?v=13f_aThhPSk
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Post by Butterfly on Dec 23, 2009 10:42:51 GMT 1
I agree he is an amazingly talented man .. and very dishy too I went to JFP just after I had just finished the one year schooling with Klaus Hempfling which had really put me in a place that I didnt know exsisted. Klaus helped me see the world from the horses point of view. We met troubled horses that changed in minutes once Klaus worked with them. I dont mean a little either ... It was a massive difference. They played because they wanted to not because anyone was making them. It was magical and gave me goosebumps He is so tuned into the horse and can read them better than anyone I have ever seen (although he is a little odd!!) The course I went on with JFP was at his home in France and it was a very small group of people. I was at a disadvantage as he did the course in French so I didnt understand what he was saying .. however this turned out to be a good thing as I focused on his and the horses body language for 2 days. The contrast between what I had been watching in Denmark and what I was seeing in France was huge. The horses were not the same .. they were like dogs. Obedient and well behaved. Not happy and playful. I am not disputing his talent because he is very very good but I agree with the gut feeling I get when I watch him and having seen him showing students how to train their horses ... well it is not for the good of the horse. It is for showmanship. He has an extremely nice bottom though
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Post by ladynowak on Dec 23, 2009 11:30:28 GMT 1
He is obviously very good at what he does, but had those horses been ridden around in a 'traditional' manner showing those faces and that body language people would have been up in arms over it.
It didn't make comfortable viewing and regardless of the reasons people give for the horses pulling those faces, it is certainly something I hope I never see my own horses doing and would never strive to achieve it.
If it weren't for the fact that all the horses looked thoroughly hacked off throughout, it would have been nice to watch. But no.
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merryf
Novice Poster
Posts: 39
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Post by merryf on Dec 23, 2009 11:33:47 GMT 1
out if interest... specialsparkle, have you ever met them away from a show environment? I got the impression that you referred to meeting backstage at Olympia or HOYS - sorry if I read that wrong. But it would be rather a shame to call people liars and accuse them of just being jealous if your views were based only on a showman's public front and not on witnessing his training and teaching away from the crowds.
I would guess that being a highly experienced showman that the horses are very well drilled to perform and stay "on cue" when away from home. Regardless of whether they are actually in the arena or not. It's like the russian horse circus people... I forget the name... it's been touring here for years... they have an act where six horses run through a routine at liberty, drilled like soldiers, not reacting to body language or cues, but running through a learned routine like robots. That is what this display put me in mind of.
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Post by ashleigh on Dec 23, 2009 12:34:14 GMT 1
I have seen him a couple of times on the telly, and on You tube clips. I can't comment on his ethics, I have my own opinions on the body language of his horses, but apart from anything else, I just find his act uninteresting. I honestly wouldn't pay to go and see him.
I prefer the guy who stands on the horses backs as they jump, can't for the life of me remember his name though. I am not big on horse 'acts' but the jumping guy I like.
That is really going to bug me now, what is his name?
Best display I have ever, ever seen is the mounted police display, it was fast, fun and fantastic!
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Post by jennyb on Dec 23, 2009 14:11:45 GMT 1
Lorenzo?
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Post by ashleigh on Dec 23, 2009 14:23:27 GMT 1
Yeeeessss! That's him! All I could think of was Gonzo, but he is one of the muppets isn't he?
Thank you Jennyb! ;D
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Post by jennyb on Dec 23, 2009 14:49:29 GMT 1
PMSL, yes, Gonzo is a muppet
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 23, 2009 19:19:41 GMT 1
Would it be possible to train the horses not to put their ears back?
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Post by june on Dec 23, 2009 19:46:38 GMT 1
I saw some of the Youtube clips before Olympia and didn't like them. The horses looked grumpy and miserable. However, at Olympia they were a little grumpy with each other when they were close together but they looked comfortable enough with him I thought.
But then I often think horses working at liberty don't look that happy about it. They often seem to me to have their ears back, but not in that concentrating ears back mode, more in grumpy mode. I do a bit of liberty every now and again with one of my horses and she also goes into that ear back mode. She's never been hit so I have to assume there's something about it that she doesn't like much.
If JFP hits foals in the face then I'm a little surprised as the horses didn't seem headshy, but I guess you can train that out of them too.
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Azrael
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,733
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Post by Azrael on Dec 23, 2009 23:42:11 GMT 1
I saw him at the Royal Welsh two years ago and this year.. first time we saw him the first thing everyone spotted was that his horses looked just like one of mine on a bad mood day when she's decided her next door neighbour shouldn't be allowed to exist.. grey and with ears flat back, they looked really p'd off. Good tricks but not impressed with the way the horses look like they hate him! Plus he seemed way too impressed with himself.
This year wasn't quite so bad, tricks more interesting and horses not looking quite as much like they'd like to kill him but still plenty of ears back, I found the whole performance to drag on a bit but at least there were a few other people performing which made it more interesting than him poncing about in his white outfit getting 'evils' from his horses ;D
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pink
Novice Poster
Posts: 10
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Post by pink on Dec 24, 2009 0:33:14 GMT 1
Someone I know was stabled next to him at Olympia this year. He left their stable doors open and whenever they even poked their noses out the door he would crack them over the head with his whip, even the little shetland. Not just waving it at them but properly wacking them.
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curly
Olympic Poster
Posts: 889
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Post by curly on Dec 24, 2009 0:33:55 GMT 1
My daughter has seen JFP twice. I have seen him once and thought the horses looked very grumpy and resentful of what they were asked. My daughter is 15 yrs old and saw him at Lowther show a couple of years ago and this weekend at Olympia. I told her of this discussion and she said that in her opinion the horses looked so used to doing it that it wasn't any challenge for them. She felt that they were robotic as merryf says in her post. Have to say she's not impressed by it at all.
In fact now I think of it, resentful is the word I would use to describe the way they looked.
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Post by portiabuzz on Dec 24, 2009 13:47:37 GMT 1
this isnt nice to hear how he treats them...has anyone ever reported him?
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