varkie
Grand Prix Poster
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 4,913
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Post by varkie on Dec 22, 2009 17:03:31 GMT 1
My feelings to do with JFP have absolutely NOTHING to do with jealousy, in any shape or form, and I'm actually pretty insulted that that could even be considered as a motive for my thoughts or behaviour. I think that's bang out of order.
Not liking something doesn't have to be because I can't do it. It may be because I see something in it which I find uncomfortable.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 22, 2009 17:05:52 GMT 1
 I didn't say YOU were jealous Varkie !
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Post by Catrin on Dec 22, 2009 17:06:13 GMT 1
did you mean went to see catrin? bit confused? My yard owner and her friend, who did all the Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling courses in 2007, also went on Jean François Pignon's introductory weekend course last year. They both came back shocked and stunned that he thought it was quite usual to treat young foals like that. It was part of what he was teaching. He taught a woman to lay her 'disobedient' horse down and to hit it hard on the head with a whip, when it tried to get up. When it still tried to get up, he said it was because she needed to hit it harder. So she kept practising until she thought she'd got it right. Naturally my YO and friend didn't do as they were told! KFH may be a little odd in his ideas, but he is effective with kindness to the horses. J-F P may be effective, but he certainly has no kindness or empathy with the horse. |
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 22, 2009 17:10:05 GMT 1
Sorry Catrin I ust don't believe this. I have watched his horses and their reactions to him for a number of years,at close quarters, and I can say with great convction that they have absolutely no fear of him, only love and respect which is surely what we all hope for.
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Post by Casper on Dec 22, 2009 17:10:39 GMT 1
If that was the case, did your YO and your friend report him for animal cruelty? I would have done if I saw a horse whipped on the head like that. I'm utterly shocked if these comments about his training methods are true. It does seem that others have seen him working with kindness and harmony with his horses?
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varkie
Grand Prix Poster
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 4,913
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Post by varkie on Dec 22, 2009 17:14:06 GMT 1
I'm relieved that I don't think I am jealous - but your comment was pretty open ended - it could have applied to any of those of us saying we didn't like what we'd seen.
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Post by mandal on Dec 22, 2009 17:16:29 GMT 1
 So he doesn't use treats then?  Don't set me off on KFH Catrin it's Christmas!  Mind you I have to say I certainly saw nothing cruel in KFH's methods. 
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Post by cookie on Dec 22, 2009 17:23:46 GMT 1
So he doesn't use treats then? ROFL at mandal! does anyone have a link to any clips? mta- sorry to lower the tone... |
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Post by portiabuzz on Dec 22, 2009 17:28:13 GMT 1
thanks catrin...sorry to hear this, i am saddened....
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Post by mandal on Dec 22, 2009 17:30:59 GMT 1
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Post by portiabuzz on Dec 22, 2009 17:38:27 GMT 1
i did enjoy his performance at the british open one year (before i was IH member..!!), but did notice the ears/tenseness....i do sincerely hope he is non violent
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Post by sophiews on Dec 22, 2009 17:38:45 GMT 1
I'm not jealous either - simply not my cup of tea, that's all. However, I did like the police ridden display!
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Post by Catrin on Dec 22, 2009 17:39:29 GMT 1
Does he use clicker or food training? just interested. From what I gather, mostly groundwork and incremental training to move over, under and around obstacles. Then putting that behaviour on a verbal cue. But there is the necessity to make the horse submissive so that it 'complies.'  Like KFH, he has an odd philosophy. J-F P's is based on what, in english he has translated as "The Chain of Forgiveness." In french, Le Pardon - a sort of penitential pilgrimage in Brittany - symbolises the arduous life journey, in which you must receive forgiveness for transgressions to reach Heaven. Effectively he explains it as an unconditional love for all things, focussed on Apologise and Forgive. You can't fault his philosophy as he thinks that hatred and rancour have no place in the world; you should always say sorry, if you know you have done something wrong; and you should always forgive someone who apologises to you. It just doesn't explain why he beats horses and even worse, teaches others to do the same. |
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Post by Catrin on Dec 22, 2009 17:48:15 GMT 1
Sorry Catrin I ust don't believe this. I have watched his horses and their reactions to him for a number of years,at close quarters, and I can say with great convction that they have absolutely no fear of him, only love and respect which is surely what we all hope for. You are entitled to call me a liar if you wish, but you really would need some evidence. I did not see the act personally, nor did I imply that I did, however my YO has never lied to me in five years, so I believe what she told me. Might I ask, have you, like my Yard Owner and her friend, been on any of his courses to see what he teaches? It seems we are not alone on here in noting the discomfort in the horses at Olympia. There are several people on the Horse and Hound Forum who noticed it also. |
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Post by cookie on Dec 22, 2009 17:54:52 GMT 1
thanks for the link mandal, I watched that and a couple of others. Theres no denying what he achieves is impressive. I am in no way qualified to comment on how it might have been achieved. I appreciate 'ears are back' but surely its over simplistic to say ears back = bad. There is a whole lot of other stuff going on there and an incredible level of concentration. interesting stuff.
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I didn't say YOU were jealous Varkie !
So he doesn't use treats then? 
Mind you I have to say I certainly saw nothing cruel in KFH's methods. 
