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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 1, 2009 13:20:38 GMT 1
P.S. Zoe is definitely NOT a moderator! She is far too naughty!
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Dec 1, 2009 13:22:07 GMT 1
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Dec 1, 2009 13:25:37 GMT 1
Even within Monty / IH there are plenty of tools that can be used with a bucking horse short of the buckstopper, sandbags, dummy, aside of the general trust and relationship building which is the real way forward with any troubled horse. That sounds like a good approach to me.
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Post by wabuska on Dec 1, 2009 13:26:31 GMT 1
I know that thread Caroline and Donnalex doesn't sugar coat her ideas I know. However- Relieving the pain and misery of horses that can't be homed well and are possibly in chronic pain to boot is called love Caroline. It's not your way, but it's coming from a base of care, not malice.
Moderator? Zoe? I didn't believe that either... Zoe? She's all blonde and flighty and irresponsible.... ;D
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Post by mandal on Dec 1, 2009 13:38:31 GMT 1
P.S. Zoe is definitely NOT a moderator! She is far too naughty! Zoe, a moderator?? Please may I have warning if this is ever an option? ;D Hang on Kelly made a 'real life rule' for a better option than the buckstopper... My bronco is living the life of Riley and I am taking a slow road with him. How did we end up in Ireland? Most of us would start again but there is a world where people give ultimatums and threaten horses lives... so, would we tell the owner it's going to be a long process with no guaranteed outcome. Owner might agree Yay!!! Owner might take the horse directly to slaughter... I personally wouldn't like to get involved in Russian roulette, so unless we do want to play RR we're back to Kelly's 'real life' scenario. Have I left an option out here?
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Post by rj on Dec 1, 2009 13:42:23 GMT 1
Excuse me ................. slap :-O That's for Lorraine :-)
(who said 'Can i lighten the thread without causing offence to anyone ??' No - how likely is that?!?!?!!!)
Parelli students (ALL the ones I know at any rate) would possibly continue to pick the hooves up from the same side because that's just as easy - why fix what ain't broke? Or, once they had established that the horse was happy with the 7 games, use gentle cues to a) ask the horse to lift its shoulders b) free the weight from and move one foreleg over c), then yield the hindquarters. They take 'as long as it takes' breaking down every movement into tiny sections, and rewarding every try. So you see, different perceptions - presumably all IH people don't think Parelli is about circus tricks? I know Kelly admits she doesn't know much about it, when I told her I was going to the Celebration bash last weekend. I thought it was worth while getting to know as much about all types of Horsemanship, watching and appreciating the best of all of it, without getting hung up on what I don't like. I watch the horses reactions, putting aside my own emotions, and if the horses remain calm (no, not 'shut down'!) and responsive, then that's fine. I may decide that a method is not one I would use, but I don't have a problem with its use by someone else.
I guess it's all been said before, but why the heck we aren't all rejoicing in the amount of people now teaching kinder smarter and better techniques for us to use, to become better horse-people with/for our horses, I really don't know.
We are all on the same side here, if we really care about the welfare of our horses (above being right or winning an argument), and whilst that doesn't mean all believing in the same things, it does mean tolerance of, & respect for others and their views.
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Post by Admin on Dec 1, 2009 13:43:55 GMT 1
Please keep the discussion on track and keep the personal slanging match out of what has been an amazingly fantastic thread. Well done posters.
Thanks, Admin (not Zoe)
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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 1, 2009 13:45:01 GMT 1
Kanga - yes sad note but I hope I have the courage if Pie is clearly in pain and has no quality of life not to keep him around just for MY sake. When we started domestication and so took a quick end from preditators out of the scenario we've opened up a whole new area to cause pain and suffering to horses. Goodness we could start another twenty threads here! Lorraine - come and lighten us up again!
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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 1, 2009 13:49:43 GMT 1
Oh goodness, I should really be working and NOT on here but here's something really interesting (and scary). A friend of mine's father was doctor. In his final days when he knew he didn't have much time left he deliberately stopped eating because he knew from experience that's a much better way to die than the alternative - basically slowly drowing in your own fluids. (I'm not a doctor so someone may be able to put that better medically). I think older animals are so fortunate not to go through some of the things we put people through.
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Post by rj on Dec 1, 2009 13:49:56 GMT 1
Since I started writing my last post a lot has happened:
So Caroline doesn't agree with Donnalex' view? OK, I can see you wouldn't, but as someone who is very much hoping euthanasia for humans will become as legal as it is for animals, I know where she is coming from.
Of course it's a hard pill to swallow, but her compassion for horses is obvious. My opinion is that death is not the worse thing that can happen to anyone or any animal. Quality of life and quality of death are paramount. Her views are admirable and humane. Feel free to disagree, but not attack.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Dec 1, 2009 13:53:12 GMT 1
Goodness me - I am not against euthanasia when it is done as an act of love and compassion. It's a choice that most animal lovers have to take at some point, but we do it when it's needed - not because it's autumn and the RSPCA are offering a discount*! There is something faintly monstrous about that idea.
*I should note that they aren't doing this! It was just Donnalex's suggestion, not an active RSPCA policy - as far as I am aware.
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Post by wabuska on Dec 1, 2009 13:53:22 GMT 1
Thanks for that Kelly... you are about a lot today. We're honoured.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Dec 1, 2009 14:00:44 GMT 1
Kanga - it's good that anything comes from care. It doesn't make that thing right or compassionate in practise though.
With that said, I am not accusing Donnalex of malice. I think we just have dramatically different perspectives and ideas. As such, we are unlikely to find agreement on certain issues e.g. the buckstopper
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Post by wabuska on Dec 1, 2009 14:09:09 GMT 1
Understood.
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Post by rj on Dec 1, 2009 14:16:48 GMT 1
Indeed we are honoured Ms Marks. Shouldn't you be doing something like writing books, or articles or ... important stuff!! Caroline, we can all read what Donnalex has said, in context and with understanding of her motives, thanks. EMW Charity is struggling to survive, if anyone is interested by the way - emwcharity.blogspot.com/ Many others are having such a tough time too What will be the outcome for those horses & ponies?
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