Response to anti-Monty brigade comment

[mandal]

Wow really thought provoking post Wendy.Of course it's along my thinking as domestic horses do not exist without humans and even if we aren't present we have effect on them via, feed, management, imposing herds, imposing feed times etc. etc. which I believe all impact on the individual horse to varying degrees.

So for me 'post modern' approach is entirely compatible with an holistic approach to horse care which I believe 100% is essential.

Yes about books... I personally have found the most influential books on me have been 'stories' which have helped me see things from a different perspective rather than a 'method' as such.

[heather]

Absolutely brilliant post Wendy!!!

Heather

[Zoe RA]

Brilliant Wendy ;D

I agree Mandal, horses are totally interlinked with humans and have been for centuries. How many of us actually work with ponies who have never come in to contact with humans and are of a breed that has not been manipulated by man in some respect? Even the wild Exmoor, Dartmoor, Carneddau etc ponies have all had dealing with people at one time or another - good or bad - and have been geneticaly manipulated by man!

Blast, I wasn't going to post on this thread again And I really should be writing my Christmas cards, not on here at all

[rosemaryhannah]

Yes, but it is not the only thing which could be said against the faulty science in the articles. I for one, have just been watching my small herd re-forming after the introduction of a member previously known to two members - the resultant interplay was fascinating, and Jacob was repeatedly 'sent away' by Mace. It took two weeks for peace to be re established. I too have been off line.

[wendyihts]

RH, I have also seen something approximating join up processes exacted by our pony on Mascagne after she started losing her vision as part of her 'takeover bid' for 2nd position. I have NEVER done join up with any of my horses. I used to do Parelli with Crystal but that pretty much stopped when we moved to France. Our ponies were pretty unhandled when we got them though Jolie is halter trained and will allow her feet to be trimmed. Her old owner certainly NEVER used NH techniques - he was an good, old fashioned SW France farmer who herded the horses around with a stick! But I happened to look out of the kitchen window to find Jolie basically round penning Mascagne one time. She was following Mascagne around, walking a smaller circle at that 45o angle, head lowered and ears back, driving her in circles around the perimeter and occasionally stopping Mascagne's direction and turning her in the other direction. I couldn't believe it! And I couldn't find my digital camera to video it! Darn it!

Eventually it was Crystal, the herd leader, who intervened. She went and put herself in between Jolie and Mascagne and the game calmed down. But this was one of Jolie's processes for establishing herself above Mascagne in the new herd order.

[berrygrower]

"The logico-deductive approach starts from the premise that 'people [or horses] are problems to be solved' whereas the post-modern, positive approach starts from the premise 'people and horses are mysteries to be appreciated'.
Hi Wendy
I'm just writing an essay looking at the divisions in social psychology between 'mainstream' and 'critical' disciplines. I'm comparing the cognitive approach and phenomenolgy, sounds similar to your quote, I definately prefer phenomenolgy (the description of lived, concious experience for anyone who wants a defintion) although horses can't speak words they can tell us something of what they are experiencing.
Mainstream psychology (based on scientific principles) has been advantaged by financial institutional support, hence the name, but context and the subjectivity it creates has been underestimated or ignored so results aren't always what they seem.
I havn't read all this post so sorry if i've missed the point but what i think is that its the overall ethos and approach or manner of a person and not the actual specific methods used that counts. I did have a go at various training methods and what my horse told me was that she was happy to co-operate if I was kind, didn't push her too hard, gave her plenty of breaks and bits of carrot, took into consideration her fears and took action to protect her from too much of them and made the time we spent together enjoyable.

[wendyihts]

..I was kind, didn't push her too hard, gave her plenty of breaks and bits of carrot, took into consideration her fears and took action to protect her from too much of them and made the time we spent together enjoyable.

Good example of an experiential learning process! ;D

Thing is, all kinds of science have their pros and cons so when we get into an argument of 'which is best?' we have to ask 'best for what?'. We rapidly reach the conclusion that there's just different forms of knowledge out there (and we 'experience' knowledge differently, according to phenomenology... ).

[Catrin]

Thanks Wendy, it's like a breath of fresh air to realise that there are scientists and psychologists amonsgst them, out there doing far more valid work that the research that tess1 introduced this post with and that Grayson extracted for comment on the science. How come he's a professor and you're not! Is it an example of people who can't do the job teaching and those who can doing it.

[wendyihts]

How come he's a professor and you're not!

I had the opportunity of doing my PhD straight after my Masters with Cranfield School of Management but realised I needed to experience the real world of work before theorising about it! (the focus of my professional practice is organisational psychology) So I went and did a 'proper job' instead and then decided that I loved using psychology to improve people's experience of work (and life!) more than I loved writing scientific journal articles about it! ;DSo, I sincerely doubt I will ever become a University professor, even if I do my doctorate in the not too distant future. Too far away from the 'coal face' for me.