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Post by heather on Dec 6, 2009 18:25:02 GMT 1
Tess,
The unpleasant and quite vitriolic tone of the posts on the thread on your forum, would lead me to wonder just what sort of people you really are, if you would treat the feelings of fellow human beings with such scant regard.
Pie was a very difficult horse, yet he would quite literally, go through fire for Kelly now. He adores her, and she him, he is beautifully schooled- I know, because I have been lucky enough to ride him- and when you and your cohorts, can turn a horse around in the way that Kelly has with Pie, producing him to win championships, cope with huge audiences at the demos without batting an eyelid, but never losing his spirit, then maybe, you have room to criticise.
Heather
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Post by ashleigh on Dec 6, 2009 19:01:42 GMT 1
Tess it has been said before to you and your chums in other places, and I will say it again here; if you really want to help horses, you have to do so through humans. If you and your chums want to win the hearts and minds of humans, you have to lead by example. Simply trying to discredit and bad mouth other trainers will simply not cut the mustard. No one ever sold themselves effectively simply by slagging off the 'opposition'.
You guys have to start producing more than ponies who can pick up cones, and wear headcollars. You need to show that your methods and ethics are compatible with a horse owning public who want to ride well, and even compete successfully and ethically.
Until you do that, and do it in a positive way, you will always be a bunch of armchair critics, failing to communicate your ideas effectively.
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Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2009 19:05:57 GMT 1
Well said Heather. The proof that Kelly's methods work is evident to anyone who has seen Pie. Beautiful horse and very well trained. I'm not sure what some people are trying to gain out of this thread...
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Post by jamesb on Dec 6, 2009 19:12:16 GMT 1
Caroline - gosh the horses on your thread look like so like my Irish boys Banksy and Corky. I don't suppose that in fact, it's YOU that's really me? You don't happen to have an exceptionally beautiful and intelligent tabby cat do you? I don't know about Caroline, but I do have just such a cat. However there's no way on earth anyone could mistake you for me! ;D
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Post by donnalex on Dec 6, 2009 19:18:12 GMT 1
You guys have to start producing more than ponies who can pick up cones, and wear headcollars. You need to show that your methods and ethics are compatible with a horse owning public who want to ride well, and even compete successfully and ethically. Thats just it though Ashleigh, reading through most of the friendly forum in question it is obvious that the main contributors to it actually dont think horses should be ridden. It is full of why cant Woody be a field ornament? What right have we to sit on them? Who says they should be ridden at all? All of their horses wont be ridden until they come to the gate and beg to be worked on bended knees, only then is it right to ride them you know! Not a practical one in amongst them, all horsey luvvies who have no idea. They can manage a geriatric, down trodden old horse and feed it and love it, give them anything else and they go to Plan B - turn it away, retire it, make it into another field ornament, who has the right to ride it anyway? The type of people on that forum are the thin end of the wedge or one of the early nails in the coffin that ends horses working for a living at all. There are people around who believe it is totally wrong to ever ride one and this is where they start. Usually helped to that mindset because they have lost their bottle anyway. Fanatic animal rights types of the horse world I think. I am a complete villain in their eyes (traditional horse person it says) as I expect my ponies to work. My guess is that the forum will go the same way that Celery did. You see, put a pack of b!!tches together and they work like a pack. Soon enough when they run out of sport they turn on themselves
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Post by grayson on Dec 6, 2009 19:40:21 GMT 1
I visited the forum once, misguidedly as I found a link to it on Ben Hart's front page, which I visited after the One Show. Funnily enough, I saw a post of Ben's on the forum called, rather oddly 'Stirring it Up'. Fair play to Ben, he was critical of the negative approach of the posters, though he did congratulate the person who challenged Monty at YHL for daring to do so. I found the rest of the thread bitter and negative. It gave the forum a very angry and unpleasant feel. Rather peculiar, as the forum was called Positive Equine Partners, yet there was nothing positive I read there. I didn't stop to read anything else, I felt like I'd fallen into the company of some silly teenage girls who wanted to 'pick on' the grownups. Unfortunately for most of them, they have left it late to grow up themselves. I did realise why the woman I saw at YHL looked aggressive and angry though, from the way she wrote, I believe that she is. Sadly aggression and anger have never changed the world for the better. Tolerance and understanding achieves so much more.
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Dec 6, 2009 19:43:39 GMT 1
That is hardly a reasoned and adult response donnalex and resorting to using such language and insults does not inspre confidence that you are of a spirit any better that those you are decrying. I have not seen tess resort to any of that language on here.
as to what their horses "do" ......I dont agree with everything that is said there but I do believe they do have the welfare of the horses at heart (and I do believe that some of the horses are ridden) and as such do not deserve to be vilified to such a degree.
Fanatical or not it is their belief and who are we to say they are wrong .......... just as they cannot say we are wrong . it IS their belief and just as they should not vilify us because we do not fit in with theirs we cannot vilify them either.
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Caroline
Grand Prix Poster
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 2,277
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Post by Caroline on Dec 6, 2009 19:53:38 GMT 1
Caroline - gosh the horses on your thread look like so like my Irish boys Banksy and Corky. I don't suppose that in fact, it's YOU that's really me? You don't happen to have an exceptionally beautiful and intelligent tabby cat do you? Not much chance me being you - I don't think I have your qualities, certainly not your tolerance Kelly I don't have an exceptionally beautiful and intelligent tabby cat - just 3 exceptionally beautiful and intelligent horses and 1 exceptionally beautiful and intelligent german shepherd dog. I'm through with arguments. Peace and love are preferable and what I ultimately want. I only mean well with what I say. It's unfortunate that it upsets people who don't agree, but I can't back off because of that. Those that feel I am too preachy may be amused to hear that I have recently decided to get ordained so will soon have a license to preach (although this probably isn't a good place for it!). God works in mysterious ways...lol!
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Post by mandal on Dec 6, 2009 19:59:07 GMT 1
Those that feel I am too preachy may be amused to hear that I have recently decided to get ordained so will soon have a license to preach (although this probably isn't a good place for it!). God works in mysterious ways...lol! LOL!!! ;D I wish you the best of luck Caroline. I mean this btw. I'm not being sarcastic.
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Post by heather on Dec 6, 2009 19:59:27 GMT 1
Grayson,
I am certain by your description, that the person at YHL is one and the same, who sent Becky and I a barrage of inquisitional emails last year.
Perhaps a good job that these folk dont live in a century when horses were a mode of transport and had to work for a living, before the motor car. They might not have thought that a 20 mile hike on foot, quite so appealing, especially with potholed unmade roads, in weather such as we have been experiencing of late!!
Like it or not, Julie, Tess, et al, people will mainly keep horses because they enjoy riding them, and when the horse is well ridden with a correct seat and refined aids, then there is no reason why it should in any way be cruel.
When you ride with this degree of finesse, the aids become thoughts, the partnership so harmonious that you will not even see an aid being given. If you feel this is so wrong, then sadly, you are misguided. Force is totally unnecessary, cooperation always the aim. You are missing out on at least 50% of the fun of building that partnership with horses. Sure we work our horses in hand, loose school them etc, etc, but it is all part and parcel of an education that builds the musculature and strength that keeps horses sound and working well into their twenties, no retirement needed until very late in the day!
Heather
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Post by wabuska on Dec 6, 2009 20:00:44 GMT 1
Congratulations Caroline, that's wonderful news.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 6, 2009 20:03:02 GMT 1
That is hardly a reasoned and adult response donnalex and resorting to using such language and insults does not inspre confidence that you are of a spirit any better that those you are decrying. I have not seen tess resort to any of that language on here. Language? I have absolutely not sworn. And as you are a regular poster on their site you will obviously know all the nasty things that they have said about me.
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Post by heather on Dec 6, 2009 20:05:30 GMT 1
I agree Laura, but I think that they are simply too evangelical in their zeal to convert others to their way of thinking, and in an accusatory way, at least with my experience of one of the members, rather than trying to win us over with reasoned argument. They are indeed entitled to their opinion and beliefs, but dont try and ram it down the throat of others- having been brought up in a strict Protestant sect, I am only too aware of how intolerance of other people's views is the quickest thing to turn them away, not win them over!! Heather
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laura
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Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Dec 6, 2009 20:56:05 GMT 1
I agree Laura, but I think that they are simply too evangelical in their zeal to convert others to their way of thinking, and in an accusatory way, at least with my experience of one of the members, rather than trying to win us over with reasoned argument. They are indeed entitled to their opinion and beliefs, but dont try and ram it down the throat of others- having been brought up in a strict Protestant sect, I am only too aware of how intolerance of other people's views is the quickest thing to turn them away, not win them over!! Heather I actually agree with you heather ...... they should not "ram it down people throats" .... this is happening on another forum I visit and I have been personally on the receving end of criticism with regards my training choices too. I have made the latter point many times to several people ;D I did not say you swore at all donnalex , "such language" refers to calling people "bi!tches" which generally is used as insulting. I may have been on the site but that hardly makes me a "regular" ..... and if you have read any of the posts you will see that I went on there to "defend" my position and to do so from an "adult" state of mind without resorting to being insulting. I am aware comments have been made there .... but you choosing to respond in such a manner only adds fuel to any fire that already exists and perpetuates the situation .... . and does the reputation of the DG no good.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 6, 2009 20:56:09 GMT 1
Being entitled to their own opinion is one thing, trying to bully people into thinking the same way as them is quite another. Why cant they have their opinion and post away about it on their forum to their hearts content? Why come on here and start controversial threads and accuse people of not being fair with their horses? Why not stay on their forum where everyone is on a higher spectrum of perfection and communication with their horses? Surely coming on here and mixing with us lower than whale poop individuals who use neanderthal methods to ride our horses is a hardship for these marvellous, higher than god paragons of horsey perfection? Another conclusion I have come to from scanning through their forum is that to fit in with them posters have to do their best to appear to be super intelligent, highly articulate professor types who can talk and type intelligent sounding gobbledegook. It does not actually matter if you are scared stiff of little ponies and dare not ride anything other than a rocking horse as long as you can get one over on posters on other forums by nitpicking at everything they type. Getting stuck on minute detail seems to be the way it is done, not seeing the bigger picture or the end result. While they are playing about with one 'Leo' between them, marvelling at him having his feet rasped after twenty years or so, Monty and his team are helping millions worldwide by getting people thinking and showing them how to go home and help their horses best and for themselves. Some people dont want that, they want to be the only one who can get results with a horse. Only in this way can they feel any self worth. If everyone can do what they do, how could they feel superior?
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