|
Post by annas on Feb 12, 2014 15:49:50 GMT 1
I googled the same thing earlier Hannah! I have to admit i skimmed through it and got the general gist rather than reading all the details. I though dobermans had their ears pinned though rather than cropped. Or is that the same thing? I must admit i have never really looked into things like that.
|
|
|
Post by ladyndibs on Feb 12, 2014 15:55:20 GMT 1
why do I do this? Just googled "why do dobermans have their tail docked" and discovered they also used to have their ears cropped. The suggested reasoning being to make it harder for an intruder to grab hold of their ears or tail? Tails used to be docked because (according to Wikipedia ) "in the United Kingdom a tax was levied upon working dogs with tails so many types of dogs were docked to avoid this tax. The tax was repealed in 1796 but that did not stop the practice from persisting." Funnily enough that was a similar reasoning to the one at the beginning of the video, working dogs were docked pets weren't, pets were taxed working dogs weren't. Interesting point Annas regarding the pain if it's done very young (still think it would hurt like bloody hell when done), if a child doesn't see (eyes covered) when they are very small the brain doesn't learn to see and even when the eyes are uncovered and there's nothing wrong with them the person is still blind, maybe if a pup's brain has never developed to consider a tail it may not miss it so once the initial healing has taken place there is no imagined pain. I'm not sure it ever caught on as much in the UK as it did in France but several breeds of dog had their ears cut and re-stitched so they would stand up rather than flop down, it was felt the dog looked 'nicer'. www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyxfYK9dV5EThis is the video I started to watch but had to turn it off, it maybe easier watching with th esound off. Slightly off subject but I wonder what % of breeds now have problems because of the practise of very selective breeding, the vast majority I think, and all done because someone somewhere has decided that despite nature managing very well for thousands of years they know better in one short lifetime,
|
|
|
Post by annas on Feb 12, 2014 16:17:24 GMT 1
Ahh i think having the ears, cropped, pinned or cut is probably all the same thing then. Whatever it is called i can't agree with that at all. Just to make them look "better", i dont think so!! I might watch the video later if i am brave enough. Although it has the dewclaw bit and i know Oscar had that done. Saying that though he does not seem to have suffered any ill effects. Also i am glad that he does not have them, he would certainly have ripped them by now which would cause him a lot more pain. Unfortunately the way dogs have been selectively bred over the years has caused so many problems. Just because someone thinks that is what the breed "should" look like doesnt mean you have to breed that trait to the extreme. It is very sad the way some dogs are suffering because of it. On a brighter note it is nice to see them slowly changing in the show world, people are becoming more aware so i guess it is heading in the right direction.
|
|
|
Post by antares on Feb 12, 2014 16:29:33 GMT 1
well if we never started messing about then we would not have domestic dogs at all would we? Pet wolf anyone?
but yes - things have gone way too far in some breeds
|
|
|
Post by janwilky on Feb 12, 2014 17:16:00 GMT 1
Ah yes breeding is another issue... Breed 'em close, cull 'em hard a breeder once said to me I have a bit of a thing about dog breeds with short noses that tend to get breathing problems. I just don't think it's right. I knew someone who had a bulldog which constantly snuffled, and wasn't allowed to run because it was incapable of breathing adequately to cope with physical exertion. Whaaaat the ****
|
|
|
Post by ladyndibs on Feb 12, 2014 17:22:29 GMT 1
Dogs claws, aaarrrggghhh don't get me started lol. Nutty's dew claws have been fine it's all the other ones that have been a problem, his feet look like a jigsaw with some of the pieces put in the wrong way round, apart from actually backwards he's got claws going in all directions.
|
|
|
Post by cbc on Feb 12, 2014 17:49:39 GMT 1
Ah yes breeding is another issue... Breed 'em close, cull 'em hard a breeder once said to me I have a bit of a thing about dog breeds with short noses that tend to get breathing problems. I just don't think it's right. I knew someone who had a bulldog which constantly snuffled, and wasn't allowed to run because it was incapable of breathing adequately to cope with physical exertion. Whaaaat the **** That is the bit I find so hard to stomach about somedog breeding. Dont get me started, some dogs have terrible problems bred into them Tails, another fence sitter, though I like to see full tails I can see how working dogs may be less prone to injury. Altering ears on dogs, I find very depressing.
|
|
|
Post by portiabuzz on Feb 12, 2014 18:30:57 GMT 1
Ah yes breeding is another issue... Breed 'em close, cull 'em hard a breeder once said to me I have a bit of a thing about dog breeds with short noses that tend to get breathing problems. I just don't think it's right. I knew someone who had a bulldog which constantly snuffled, and wasn't allowed to run because it was incapable of breathing adequately to cope with physical exertion. Whaaaat the **** and with cats, its so wrong IMHO
|
|
|
Post by ukshowjumper on Feb 12, 2014 20:49:09 GMT 1
Having seen the state of a working spaniels tail which vets refused to amputate until it was deformed and he was in constant pain, I am in favour of docking working dogs, any other situations, no I don't like it.
|
|
|
Post by jackiedo on Feb 12, 2014 22:19:33 GMT 1
preventative mutilation eh?
Yes I can see how some working dogs with full feathery tails would be at a disadvantage and at risk in certain types of cover, BUT most dogs in recent history were docked because it was fashion. Driven horses had their tails docked at one time didn't they?
I love Border terriers, (they don;t have tails docked) but one guy came on a forum to ask where he could get his dog docked didn't get much support..
After all, if he had his penis amputated it would save him getting it stuck in his zip, but it seems a bit harsh.
I think truthfully most dogs are still docked because we are used to seeing them that way, and breeders found it hard to sell undocked pups in a traditionally docked breed.
Again, I must stress that I can see a full feathered tail being a hindrance in thorn, but then, so would floppy ears be etc. Having said that, a tailed Rottie can do an awful lot of damage to your best ornaments when it starts wagging it's tail i am sure.... I did once observe a litter of Rotties being docked and I must say it was over very quickly and they didn't make much fuss. My friend also has a Jackadoodle dog who I presumed was docked, but he constantly sires short tailed puppies, so I am not sure. For me, I prefer full tailed dogs, and I know several working springers who are not docked and seem to cope OK. Clearly there are more experienced people than me with this breed who love their dogs and would not hurt them unnecessarily.
|
|
|
Post by janwilky on Feb 12, 2014 22:43:52 GMT 1
Trying hard not to laugh about the penis amputation It's funny about ears, I used to think cocker ears would get horribly caught up in brambles but they don't very often seem to in my experience. I think it's partly because working cocker coats are usually very silky, much more so than show-type cockers which have thicker, more curly coats. But also the loppy bits of ears are just soft tissue, so if they do get cut or caught there's no bone structure to get badly damaged as the dog struggles to free itself as there would be with a tail, and a tattered ear heals well enough.
|
|
|
Post by julz on Feb 12, 2014 23:40:48 GMT 1
surely it would be more painful for the dog to have bits of thorns etc stuck on feathery ears than on tails?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 11:59:12 GMT 1
Yes I've often wondered why breed a spaniel with long ears then dock it's tail.
Our JRT's poor tail never had much hair on it and so I guess it's got little protection. I do suspect if he has to have it amputated in the future (aged 6 or so) he'll suffer more than if it had been docked as a pup, both in terms of loss of balance - he definitely uses it for balance when cornering at speed, and in terms of surgery recovery.
|
|
|
Post by janwilky on Feb 13, 2014 12:03:17 GMT 1
That's just it though Jules, pain doesn't even appear on the radar when a working dog is hunting, there's so much adrenaline involved. So it's more about damage (and pain afterwards) than pain at the time, and in my experience damage to ears is usually minor and superficial, unlike the horrible stories I've heard about tail damage. Scamp was very efficient at getting brambles etc out from his ears, he had a neat technique of grabbing the end he could reach and yanking it out. If that didn't work he'd present himself to me, thorns n all, for an extraction job! But those silky ears generally don't get too badly entangled. Apart from burrs, which are a complete nightmare and unfortunately we have a lot of them round here and I spend hours and hours in the autumn months picking them out of ears, chest, leg hair, tail... grrh, I hate them!
|
|
|
Post by janwilky on Feb 13, 2014 12:35:34 GMT 1
Michelle the long ears are for scenting game. Cocker ears are usually longer than Springers, but in both breeds (and especially cockers) working strains usually have shorter ears than show-type dogs. That's because show types are bred for looks whereas working dogs for function - so long, silky ears help with scenting but excessively long ones would be an impediment (brambles etc). The American cocker is an extreme example of show breeds diverging from their working cousins - I really wouldn't want to take one of those on a walk through the woods round here, the feathering on ears and body is completely ludicrous! I know which model I prefer
|
|