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Post by basilhorse on Jan 4, 2012 15:01:14 GMT 1
Well I finally managed to get the courage to watch the vid, and yes I agree it was very very quick and peaceful in that instance However, I think it only right to comment that shooting can go horribly wrong and not be at all peaceful I have witnessed a horse being shot where it all went terrribly wrong, horse moved was shot in the face (nose), broke off running about, re caught, then heavily sedated, then shot again - took about 20 minutes in all, vet and lady holding poor horse were absolutely drenched in blood from head to toe literally, people who collected horse said 'oh that went a bit wrong then', when they saw her body, a very messy & distressing end to a poor horses life We can only do our best, I think if we can bear it then being there with our beloved horses at the end is the right thing to do, and considering the options and what is right for our horses Very sadly this is what happened to my beloved horse (except he didn't run off). He wasn't at home either as he broke his leg out on a hack (stepped half on, half off a stone at canter)
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Post by SarahW on Jan 4, 2012 20:21:50 GMT 1
We are very lucky to live in a country where we have choices about how and then our animals are put down. Imagine if it was illegal to do one or the other, or even worse, both. I've had horses put down using both methods - when a horse is recumbent in a stable having them shot isn't an option yet here on the Forest it might be quicker to get the agister or hunt out than to get a vet depending on the time of day and how busy they all are.
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daisysp8
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Post by daisysp8 on Jan 4, 2012 20:35:20 GMT 1
Very sadly this is what happened to my beloved horse (except he didn't run off). He wasn't at home either as he broke his leg out on a hack (stepped half on, half off a stone at canter) So sorry BH, that must have been heart breaking for you x But the strangest thing happened when the knackerman's lorry came within view of the fields. This was a large DIY yard and there were loads of horses out in 8 fields. EVERY SINGLE ONE stopped grazing and they all watched the lorry go up the road, for several minutes, and then, as the lorry went around the bend, one horse gave an almighty whinny and as one, the horses turned and resumed grazing! Obviously this was an awful, gutty day for all of us, but handled with dignity and empathy by our knackerman and with help by other girls on the yard, who cleaned up for me. Sorry if this has been upsetting to read xxxxxx It wasn`t upsetting to read, it sent shivers down my spine what you said about the the horses, and the whinny at the knackermans Lorry. The guy did sound caring, and i know that makes a world of difference. It sounds as though it was handled as well as it could have been, with care and consideration. There were a number of reasons why my boy couldn`t be done at home, the main one being our location, we are down a one car wide, dead end road, that has deep ditches to either side, and a very narrow gate hole with deep ditches to the side of that too. A car and trailer only just fits, and even then, once before, the trailer had ended up in the ditch. It isn`t physically possible to get the knackermans Lorry in there under normal circumstances, let alone under the terrible snow/ice conditions we had last year. I couldn`t have him done outside on the lane, and wouldn`t have wanted to for obvious reasons, and the only other part that is accessible for the Lorry is a wide verge, right next to a childrens playground, and again that wasn`t going to happen for obvious reasons, and that would have been in no way a dignified for my boy. As already said by others, i doesn`t matter how it is done, nor who does it, or where it is done. What matters is the horse, and what is best for them.
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sazjayp
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Post by sazjayp on Jan 4, 2012 20:47:02 GMT 1
I've only had to have one horse PTS before - my friend had gone off to get married in Wales knowing that her horse wasn't well and had given me full authority to seek treatment etc in her absence. I had to have her boy PTS on her wedding day - so an awful situation and I was in pieces as she said to call her anytime other than her wedding day! He was really suffering and the vet and I decided that an injection would be best - he went down quickly but it was still an awful experience...no matter what the method, it's still heartbreaking.
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Post by maryplain on Jan 5, 2012 12:39:40 GMT 1
Pony-Nutt, I was most interested in your story about your dog (very sorry to hear you lost your dog - it's never easy). Mainly because I had a cat who had a stroke, last year, and the vet came out to pts. Now he is a very good vet and I trust him implicitly so when he said they no longer inject into the vein I just accepted it. he went on to explain that they had found injecting into the kidneys was better for the owners as the animal tends to drift off rather than drop like a stone, and the owners usually found it less distressing. If he hadn't explained the reasons why I might have wondered if it was right, as it did take longer. By the way, the cat knew nothing about it as he had sedated her beforehand. I wonder if your vet also injects into the kidneys? Maybe for the same reasons. I know when I've had guinea pigs pts before now they have always done this 'slow' method, mainly because it's very difficult to find a GP vein as they are so little. I think some vets don't explain properly what they are doing - now this could be for many reasons and nothing to do with the vet's competence - but personally I like to know why as I find it helps me to rationalise what is happening, and takes my mind off the awfulness of having one of my beloved pets pts.
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Jan 5, 2012 13:46:51 GMT 1
Not sure what method I would use, so far I haven't had to make the decision. If it was illness I think I would be more inclined with injection, because in my mind its more peaceful, I'm not sure i could deal with the sound of a gun going off and seeing my horse drop to the ground. I also like to think I would be strong enough to be there but, I had to go in another room when I had a mouse pts and I sobbed my heart out, not what the animal needs. My mum had a cat pts a few years back (she has been there for many and luckily this is the only 'bad' experience she had), the cat fought till the end, wriggled around and didn't go quietly, really upset my mum. Not pleasant & hopefully don't have to think about it for many years with all my animals xx
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Post by Francis Burton on Jan 5, 2012 15:31:45 GMT 1
I think it's good someone put the video up for other to see an example of shooting working well - as it usually does. Upsetting, yes, but also potentially reassuring for anyone who has to face this for the first time.
However, I think it would be good if someone also put a video up of an example of an injection working well - as it usually does - by way of balance, and so as not to give the impression that one method is clearly better than another, when in fact there may be very valid and possibly personally reasons for choosing one or the other.
The message should be that, whichever method is chosen to put a horse to sleep, there is of course a chance that it may go wrong - but in the vast majority of cases, everything goes 'smoothly' and as it should - although naturally it's the exceptions that people have trouble forgetting and therefore tend to focus on.
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Post by laurac on Jan 5, 2012 17:56:32 GMT 1
I think it's good someone put the video up for other to see an example of shooting working well - as it usually does. Upsetting, yes, but also potentially reassuring for anyone who has to face this for the first time. However, I think it would be good if someone also put a video up of an example of an injection working well - as it usually does - by way of balance, and so as not to give the impression that one method is clearly better than another, when in fact there may be very valid and possibly personally reasons for choosing one or the other. The message should be that, whichever method is chosen to put a horse to sleep, there is of course a chance that it may go wrong - but in the vast majority of cases, everything goes 'smoothly' and as it should - although naturally it's the exceptions that people have trouble forgetting and therefore tend to focus on. Very valid points Francis Ive not witnessed a horse pts by injection, but found this clip, not sure if its a typical case, the video is sad but looks peaceful, and the pony is surrounded by people who care, people can watch it if they like to give them some idea of the other way to pts a horse www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUMXOK6HPw
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Post by Francis Burton on Jan 5, 2012 19:46:30 GMT 1
Thanks for posting that, Laura.
I actually found the injection video more upsetting to watch, but I think that was because of the obvious emotional involvement of the people with the horse. The shooting was done more matter-of-factly. In neither case, however, did the animal suffer - which surely is the most important thing.
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daisysp8
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Post by daisysp8 on Jan 5, 2012 19:56:42 GMT 1
Thank you Laura.
I have to agree with Francis, i found the injection video more upsetting. There was the same level of compassion shown to each horse, in both videos, but i found it upsetting to see the wobbly legs, uncertainty, and heaving/heavy drawing of breath at the end as the horse fell (just my personal opinion).
But it was nice that the rescue mare went with people who cared surrounding her.
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Post by tikkatonks on Jan 5, 2012 20:00:10 GMT 1
I have also witnessed death by lethal injection on several elderly and sick cats, it can take a long time (over 10 minutes) for them to die which is incredibly distressing to watch. One cat I took was so near to death that it took 3 injections and still took what seemed like forever for her to die.
I had my ferret put to sleep and the vet asked if I minded him injecting into the kidney, some people find the thought upsetting but injecting into the kidney resulted in a very fast and quiet passing. Not sure if this depends on how ill the animal is? If I ever have an animal put to sleep again I would request that the vet injects into the kidney.
With horses I think it would depend entirely on circumstances, I would prefer if practical to use shooting.
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Post by donnalex on Jan 5, 2012 20:03:10 GMT 1
Maryplain - both of the dogs were injected into a vein in a foreleg. Most recently the Doberman done in the back of my truck lurched violently backwards in obvious distress for a few seconds then was gone - the vet said that was quite common. I too found the second clip of the palomino horse much more difficult to watch not because of the people just because it took too long. Bear in mind the horse had already had some sedative so total time is unnacceptable for me and any of my ponies
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Post by lizpurlo on Jan 5, 2012 20:52:28 GMT 1
There is a time and a place for both methods, and like most things in the horse world, one should never be too dogmatic.
A horse broke his leg at a local Hunter Trials near here. It was instantly recognisable as a totally hopeless fracture. The local huntsman could have been there within ten minutes to shoot the horse, but the owner wanted a vet and lethal injection. The vet took an hour to arrive - the unfortunate horse standing on three legs all the while. And the vet in question was newly qualified and extremely nervous when confronted by a large powerful hunter which had no wish to die today, thank you very much........... The deed was done eventually but left everyone involved deeply shaken. Our local huntsman is a proper horseman, capable and compassionate. How much kinder and more humane for the horse had the huntsman been summoned instead.
I have witnessed both methods and was also taken aback at how long the injection took, and how co-operative the horse had to be.
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natty
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Post by natty on Jan 5, 2012 23:44:00 GMT 1
i can see how how it is quick and calm and loads have people have told me to have them shot because its so much cheaper, but for me personally i wouldnt care if i was made bankrupt i would rather have the injection for my horses, i would like the last image i have of them to be laying peaceful not with a hole in the head, but that is my opinion i no everyones different
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Post by donnalex on Jan 6, 2012 7:49:01 GMT 1
See natty there is a problem you are the first to introduce to the discussion Well done for bringing up the subject of money! Money is a factor in everything we do in the modern world whether we care to admit it or not. As the only species on the planet to love money we are totally alone in this false idolisation of the stuff. We are surrounded by people who think that moeny can buy them love or if they love something enough they are prepared to pay. Or put very bluntly - money equals love to a heck of a lot of us! So the more a method costs the better it must be and the more we love the horse right? Wrong! Animals do not give a fig about money, they dont give a stuff that you are prepared to bankrupt yourself to have a 'nice death' for them. No other animal thinks the more you pay the more you loved me! When having an animal put down we must make ourselves stop thinking of money. The fact that shooting is cheaper and is used for the economic slaughter process should not come into it but it does for a lot of people which is wrong. It is very difficult for a money loving human to separate money from almost every aspect of its life. Funeral directors have it right. Grieving relatives will pay for silk lined coffins to prove they loved them, regularly after a life of fighting with them! They will even pay for a lavish funeral then take another favoured in the will relative to court for a bigger share of the spoils. How much better would it have been to make an effort whilst they were alive to appreciate it?
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