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Post by donnalex on Jan 3, 2012 12:16:45 GMT 1
www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2156227022375This is a link to a short clip of a pony being put down posted by local knackerman on the EE page belonging to Heather. It has been put on to show wary people just how quick it is. Even people who are squeamish wont be upset. I think it is a great idea to put this up for people to see for themselves. I have see for myself two put dow by injection that were not mine and would always choose shooting as a result of being able to make up my own mind from seeing both. Having a horse shot is humane, practical and caring, the least we can do at the end.
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Post by mandal on Jan 3, 2012 12:20:09 GMT 1
I'm not up to watching today but I think this is a good idea. It is after all part of our lives with horses so should be faced openly.
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Post by donnalex on Jan 3, 2012 12:32:26 GMT 1
It is not at all horrid to watch and it is not close up, the whole clip is over in seconds from the pony walking willingly and calmly with him to the end. There is not a flicker of life or movement from the pony from before it goes down. I think that sending old horses away to new homes and everything they know to retirement livery, charities and so on is much much more of a hardship for an animal and very wrong. If this clip stops that happening to even a few horses then that has to be a good thing.
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Post by sandy on Jan 3, 2012 12:33:29 GMT 1
Thank you for posting that link. I held my friends horse when it was pts with an injection and it definitely wasn't as quick. The horse was sedated first which lengthened the process and he didn't appear distressed and grazed while the sedation took effect. It all seemed very gentle. That vid did make my stomach go over as it was so sudden. But I doubt the pony knew anything about it. I suppose its all down to how experienced the person is who does the deed. I agree with your comments about sending old/infirm horses away etc - there are far worse fates than a quick death.
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Post by lavenderlanebabies on Jan 3, 2012 12:38:51 GMT 1
I am sorry but I disagree pony nut, if an old horse can live a few more years comfortably with a new owner or on a retirement farm then I think that is a good thing. I have a retired old boy who was going to be shot, but I took him on and 6 years on he is happy, healthy and was not upset in the slightest at being moved.
After trying to save an old mare to find it was all in vain and was shot anyway I am really upset you would think it is best to kill a horse than find another home for it!
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Post by julz on Jan 3, 2012 12:42:13 GMT 1
I agree that the injection can be a long process, certainly it was with S and very distressing too... but on the other hand, Oldie was also PTS by injection and that was remarkably quick.
A livery on same yard had her pony PTS by shot, and im sorry but it made such a mess of the stable it took her 2 days to get rid of the blood traces (pony was pts in a stable as she couldn't get up) seeing all that blood was extremely distressing not just to the owner and other liveries but also to the horses who could smell the blood.
Im sorry but I'd never choose the gun
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Post by donnalex on Jan 3, 2012 12:43:01 GMT 1
But with sedation the horse knows it is losing control of its own feet, it goes down whilst still awake and is struggling to stay on its feet. The last thing a horse gives up by choice is its standing position, its instinct tells it to stay on its feet at all costs so getting them down is stressful. This coloured pony did not have to go through that. And yes the experienced knackermen are the best ones to use, they have had a lot of practise, lots more than a vet. I was there when a TB mare was put down, the vet sedated the horse and it went down, then into the same vein and needle went the stuff to stop the heart. At this point the mare started gasping and clawing at the ground her mouth straining and taught. The vet stopped the liquid, detached the tube and gave her more sedative. How awful that was for the owner who saw everything and the horse. This is fact, I was there, I was asked to pinch the tube and hold the bottle whilst the vet detached it and gave her more anaesthetic. This is not a horror story passed down through loads of people. The owner was screaming and had to be pinned back from the vet. Euthanasia by injection may look a bit better to us as there is no shot sound but when that shot rings out the horse is already gone.
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Jan 3, 2012 12:43:07 GMT 1
Very quick... Still a little distressing though... But only because they are putting an animal to sleep. What would happen if the horse wasnt so quiet?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using ProBoards
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Post by donnalex on Jan 3, 2012 12:46:33 GMT 1
The mess and blood left behind (sometimes) is afterwards the horse knows nothing of it. The benefit of the quick painless death is what the point is here. People not linked to the horse can clean up right away ad not leave it to set. The welfare of the horse should always come before a bit of mess! And just maybe the 'callous' owner thought more of his mare than you gave him credit for, dying at home with her known companions?
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Post by donnalex on Jan 3, 2012 12:48:15 GMT 1
Very quick... Still a little distressing though... But only because they are putting an animal to sleep. What would happen if the horse wasnt so quiet? Sent from my GT-I9100 using ProBoards Experienced knackermen handle them calmly and they are gone before they can get stressed. Not a worry at all Jo
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companymagic
Grand Prix Poster
Horses are for life not just for riding....
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Post by companymagic on Jan 3, 2012 12:55:43 GMT 1
Thanks for posting that Vid, still a bit upsetting but it's life and good to see how quick it is.
However please don't judge people for not wanting to shot their horses at the end of their days, I had both of my horses put to sleep by injection and I am very happy with having made that choice for them..
It was quiet and peaceful and neither of my old horses suffered. It's good for people to see both options, I wonder if it would be possible to get a video from a good vet of a horse being put to sleep my injection there too so people can make up their own minds.
Having an loved animal put to sleep is very hard, but information is power and I felt so much better knowing what would happen to my horses before they went, having talked it over in full detail with my vet well before hand.
These are VERY personal choices for our animals and I think people should be free to make informed choices themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 12:58:06 GMT 1
Fair enough to post a video showing people one way, but lets not pretend this thread isn't totally one sided.
What you're doing is comparing the best of one method with the worst of another - not a fair comparison and not actually very helpful IMO, no more helpful than someone showing the worst possible abuse of a dually and comparing it to sensitive use of spurs then condemning the dually for it.
I've been there when a horse was PTS by injection and it was nothing like you describe. The horse was given an overdose of general anaesthetic, she laid down quietly and was gone, no stressing, no waiting, nothing. I can tell you from having had number GA's myself, all you feel is tired, then nothing, end of.
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Post by julz on Jan 3, 2012 12:59:08 GMT 1
The welfare of the horse should always come before a bit of mess! Ofcourse it should..... but you should also have to consider the live horses left behind, who will be able to smell the blood, and perhaps become upset by that. regarding the Oldie who was pts with injection, he wasn't sedated first... he was ready to go and accepted what was happening, he even had a friend with him, she refused to leave him, until he was down. I really don't think watching a video of someone shooting a horse however a good experience it is. Someone watching that will think their own horse should then be shot, and will be expecting a scene like the video, but it could also go so wrong. Just like the injection can.
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Post by mandal on Jan 3, 2012 13:04:07 GMT 1
Toby was put to sleep by injection at home and it was calm, quiet and very quick.
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varkie
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Post by varkie on Jan 3, 2012 13:14:13 GMT 1
I think there should be a little less judgement of other peoples decisions. The welfare of the horse should of course be paramount, but not everyone will agree what is in the best interests of the horse!
The important thing when an animal is PTS is the ability of the person doing it, not the method. Both methods - shooting and injection - can go wrong. Both can be traumatic, for both equine & human. However both can also go right, and be totally untraumatic for anyone concerned - other than the grief.
I've had quite a bit of experience of both methods, having worked on yards, and seen one that went wrong. My own personal choice, with all that experience is injection after sedation. But I don't condemn anyone who chooses to have their equine shot. We each make our decisions based on the information we have, and what we think is best.
There can definitely be a case for finding a home for an older equine - I actually owe a lot of my earlier experiences to horses in their 20's, which if others had not consented to rehome them, I would never have had, and I am very grateful they did. But to rehome any older equine (any equine?) there are precautions to take, and one should vet all homes carefully, and consider terms at length.
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