|
Post by wabuska on Dec 11, 2011 19:28:17 GMT 1
Just recalled my farrier telling me he would have potentially died were it not for his horse knowing 'Woah'. His recently backed TB gelding shied violently in an open field and sent him out the side-door. His foot was caught in the stirrup and he was starting to be dragged. He has always started them knowing 'Woah' and the horse stopped at the word.
|
|
|
Post by arabiangem on Dec 11, 2011 20:06:13 GMT 1
Interesting topic.
My two are trained for a handful of voice commands/verbal cues. When ridden: a cluck to trot, kiss to canter, 'ho' to stop, back to rein back, over to move over (alongside a leg aid so they know which end is required to move over!). Also back and over on the ground. It makes for a very light/easy ride which over the course of a 4/5 hour endurance ride means much fewer physical aids!
But I am also realistic enough to know that they are not moving off 'just' the verbal cue. There will be some physical changes in my body as I mentally prepare for the command so they are in all likelihood reacting to body language as well/instead of. I will never know for sure!
|
|
|
Post by ladyndibs on Dec 11, 2011 22:48:06 GMT 1
Just recalled my farrier telling me he would have potentially died were it not for his horse knowing 'Woah'. His recently backed TB gelding shied violently in an open field and sent him out the side-door. His foot was caught in the stirrup and he was starting to be dragged. He has always started them knowing 'Woah' and the horse stopped at the word. Nowhere near as dramatic but my mare if spooked can normally be got to slow and come to a stop to whoa.
|
|
|
Post by shan on Dec 11, 2011 22:58:40 GMT 1
Aside from the actual voice and the words, which may or not become associated with a request depending on the horse, I think there is another angle here; if I base this on one horse with one owner the horse actually likes, for convenience - horses recognise the voice of their human and respond to it, and we could assume that as a familiar sound associated with something 'pleasant' or 'safe', that the sound of our voices puts them at ease, to whatever extent. Horses are creatures of habit and do make associations so, if when we're having a nice time with our horse and talking rubbish to him as we humans often do, he may not understand the words but will pick up on our emotional or psychological state and make an association with our voice. Similarly if we're upset, stressed, angry etc, they will also pick this up even if the emotion isn't directed at them. Horses are incredibly clever and receptive, and not often fooled by insincerity, therefore though we don't need to speak for them to 'get' us from moment to moment, I think quite often it helps us to externalise what we want to convey to our horse, or even to ourselves - we can talk ourselves through a situation in order to help our horse. It's how we communicate and it's easy for us to gabble without realising! I'd bet that alot of horses switch off anyway of we're just burbling away needlessly, lol! Also, for nervous riders it helps them to chat or sing to calm themselves, and if that works then it's helpful for the horse too. I can see the point of quiet communication, I can also see the benefits of talking and vocal commands, for 'snappy' noises which bring their attention back to us, and even for a shout to emphasise body language if necessary for an emergency.
|
|
|
Post by Beth&Rosie on Dec 11, 2011 23:10:40 GMT 1
Also, for nervous riders it helps them to chat or sing to calm themselves, and if that works then it's helpful for the horse too. I agree, i used this technique with my best friend who is a fairly new rider when we took her on her first hack. She was so tense as she was convinced her horse was gooing to spook/bolt/buck/she was going to fall off and die! etc. Well I knew her horse was perfectly safe as I have hacked on and with him on several occasions, her tenseness was making him tense up so my other friend and I got her to talk to us and sing while we were riding to take her attention away (though not completely!) from her worries and her horse. Lo and behold, when an ambulance shoots out from behind a hedge right next to us all sirens blaring none of the horses bat an eyelid! can also see the benefits of talking and vocal commands, for 'snappy' noises which bring their attention back to us Yep, normally a sharp Oi! will do to make her pay attention when she is in one of her "stroppy madam" moods!
|
|
|
Post by nich on Dec 12, 2011 9:24:22 GMT 1
horses can and do use 'verbal' communication. maybe they have learned it from us, but 2 of ours do. Autumn nickers for food, and to get our attention when she's been left in a stable for a few hours. Iolo calls to his 'Dad' (OH). this is mostly used in the winter, when we go up in the dark to check and feed. He will call as OH walks towards the field, or when we get out of the car, or if OH is looking for him in the field and walking the wrong way 'I'm over here Dad'! and he has quite a different call for 'I'm in distress Dad' - he has used it when injured.
Brio is silent - but the other two only developed their verbal communication after a few years with us, so probably they have learned that humans communicate like this. Brio certainly responds to the voice, specifically 'up' as a command, then 'good girl' as a reward for picking up her feet. And when long lining she knows 'whoa', 'walk on' and 'trot' (we aren't up to canter yet!)
|
|
|
Post by domane on Dec 12, 2011 9:48:11 GMT 1
Now I'm confused. I have a couple of youngsters who will be started over the next two years.... one of whom I want to ultimately drive. I have been told that using voice commands when long-lining is the best way of assisting them in their movements once I am on board. Indeed put a pair of blinkers on and with no voice ultimately your only form of communication is down the reins, directly to their mouth and I'd rather use forms of "Woah" and "steady" to assist in braking than just hauling on the reins out of the blue.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2011 12:51:04 GMT 1
I think some of my comments are being mis-read. Ultimately verbal communication is a human concept - very rarely used by horses I didn't say they don't use it. I said they rarely use it. It's usually as a greeting or "where are you" when they can't see eachother. I've never seen horses stood together in a field nickering/ whinnying/ neighing to eachother, has anyone else? The most I've seen in that situation is squealing when squabbling, and that's usually only when new horses meet. and I think anthropomorphism is at it's worst when chattering to horses when training them. Let's be clear. Chattering is not the same thing as teaching specific verbal cues and using the precisely. Kelly told us to be quiet when starting to learn join up because most people make a lot of random noises or use words which the horse will only know if they have previously been taught. I've seen IH students do it when they assume "come on" "click click" "go on then" etc will work without having taught the horse them first, and they make those noises instead of communicating with body language which the horse does understand. She did say you can choose to introduce the voice/ noises later, but that it should be considered exactly what each noise means. I think by being quiet at least for a while it makes you focus on how the horse is communicating with you - which is not verbal.
|
|
|
Post by spanisheyes on Dec 12, 2011 13:31:23 GMT 1
Hmm interesting, I consider my voice to be one of my key tools when working with a horse.
My boy spent the first 5 years of his life in Holland but after me owning him for 4 years his English is excellent! ;D
One of the first things I always teach my horses is good boy/girl. I say this every time I feed them, then in tricky situations the good/boy girl is associated with nice things and (feed) reward. It makes teaching them things so much easier. I reward their efforts with a good boy/girl and a treat. They want to try for me and enjoy what they are doing, life with my horses would be very grey and bland were it not for voice commands. Undoubtedly they pick up on tone and intonation as much as words but the very least I would expect a horse to understand and respond to is: Their name (coming to the call) Whoa Stand Walk Trot Canter Steady Get on Hup (go over something) Careful (this means look where you are putting your feet) Over Back NO Good boy/girl (this means yes, you're doing the right thing) Manners (mind my space and listen to me)
I give them a plethora of other verbal cues which they respond to albeit not as instantaneously as to the above. Yesterday for example I wanted to get my boy off the yard and in his stable and couldnt be bothered to get his headcollar. I just said "in your shed" and off he went. I wouldnt expect him to know this but Im glad he did, it was useful. He has learnt this because I say that to him when I lead him in, simple association. He couldnt see me because I was bent over behind the door doing something so a physical cue would have been useless.
I think to not talk to your horse would be very sterile and uninspiring.
|
|
|
Post by wabuska on Dec 12, 2011 13:33:17 GMT 1
I think that's a good working list, and I would have used all of those along the way too Spanish. Kiss to canter is a great tool too. I love it.
|
|
|
Post by mandal on Dec 12, 2011 13:39:30 GMT 1
Good of you to clarify Michelle. A good assertive post too. Chat when training is something I don't do. I have made a real effort to reduce the amount of stimuli I am putting out when training. Of course I do talk to my horses and stroke them etc. I am human after all, believe it or not. I just try to keep my verbal noise switched off when I'm training except for praise and when I'm trying to teach a verbal cue. I'm generally not a shouty type of person and don't go round singing at the top of my voice or have radios blaring, I like peace and quiet myself anyway.
|
|
|
Post by specialized on Dec 12, 2011 18:50:53 GMT 1
Any noise you make is either a substitute for another cue (be it body language or pressure) or entirely superfluous. I don't think your comments are being misread, that is what you said, but the topic has become very interesting with a great majority using voice commands as standard reinforcement of other cues - or indeed on their own.
|
|
|
Post by specialized on Dec 12, 2011 18:53:41 GMT 1
I've never seen horses stood together in a field nickering/ whinnying/ neighing to eachother, has anyone else? Ever listened to a mare with her foal?
|
|
|
Post by taklishim on Dec 12, 2011 19:03:37 GMT 1
leaving aside specific command cues such as stop, go, back etc what do people who don't chatter or talk to their horses do to reassure them in a difficult situation? I wondered this out riding today. Situation was a very narrow high banked single track road. Went round a sharp corner and there was a cow in the middle of the road coming towards us. It was a very dominant cow who had no intention of turning round and giving way (as they usually do) Horse is used to cows however he is quite nervous under his bolshy cob exterior and partly due to the shock of a monster round the corner and partly due to the fact that he was submissive to the cow he stood shaking in the road, frozen and with a very strong inclination to turn round and run off back the way we had come. The cow stood in the middle of the road. (I was BTW breathing deeply, calm and not in the slightest worried at what he would do so I didn't need to talk or sing)
(obviously for those without loose cattle substitute whatever monster lives in your area ) but how would you reassure the horse? vocal comands to go anywhere wouldn't work as the horse was frozen to the spot. My solution was to talk to him and scratch him to get him to relax but what you do if you didn't talk? How are people taught to deal with this on IH courses?
|
|
|
Post by taklishim on Dec 12, 2011 19:08:44 GMT 1
Hmm interesting, I consider my voice to be one of my key tools when working with a horse. My boy spent the first 5 years of his life in Holland but after me owning him for 4 years his English is excellent! ;D One of the first things I always teach my horses is good boy/girl. I say this every time I feed them, then in tricky situations the good/boy girl is associated with nice things and (feed) reward. It makes teaching them things so much easier. I reward their efforts with a good boy/girl and a treat. They want to try for me and enjoy what they are doing, life with my horses would be very grey and bland were it not for voice commands. Undoubtedly they pick up on tone and intonation as much as words but the very least I would expect a horse to understand and respond to is: Their name (coming to the call) Whoa Stand Walk Trot Canter Steady Get on Hup (go over something) Careful (this means look where you are putting your feet) Over Back NO Good boy/girl (this means yes, you're doing the right thing) Manners (mind my space and listen to me) I give them a plethora of other verbal cues which they respond to albeit not as instantaneously as to the above. Yesterday for example I wanted to get my boy off the yard and in his stable and couldnt be bothered to get his headcollar. I just said "in your shed" and off he went. I wouldnt expect him to know this but Im glad he did, it was useful. He has learnt this because I say that to him when I lead him in, simple association. He couldnt see me because I was bent over behind the door doing something so a physical cue would have been useless. I think to not talk to your horse would be very sterile and uninspiring. " absolutely this" (except mine was broken in Spanish but was quickly multi lingual ) ;D ;D ;D
|
|