|
Post by heather on Dec 6, 2010 12:03:19 GMT 1
Jen, The horse only had sewing machine legs when he thought that the rider wanted piaffe all the time, because Mary had put her stirrups up and brought her lower legs so far back! It was winding him up! I know this breed so well, and the secret is not to clamp onto the horse, which is what Mary did, and which stopped him in his tracks. Rising trot, regulating the tempo with the rise and sit, and the lower leg, would have got him back to a longer, more swinging stride. Heather
|
|
|
Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 12:22:36 GMT 1
Good point. Mary teaches the rider to have the heel in line with the back of the bum, rather than underneath the hip JOINT, which is what most people recommend. On a horse trained to piaffe and passage, the lower leg goes back a fraction (to the position that Mary recommends for normal riding) which is the horse's cue to take piaffe or passage. That's why the horse was short in the gaits (although he is a little anyway, compared to a wb for example), because not only was Mary riding like that herself, but she had Loretta doing the same. I have seen the horse ridden normally and he does not do what he was doing in the demo, it was quite simply a product of the riding style. He thought he was being asked to collect, we in the audience could see as much quite plainly and it was painful to watch at times!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2010 12:26:59 GMT 1
Jenny, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said MW trains riders not horses - a s far as I'm aware that's what she's setting out to do.
On the IH 5 Day Foundation Course either Julia or Nicole give riding assessments using RWYM coaching with the rider sat on a saddle on an oil drum.
For me it made a mahoosive difference in one 20 minute session because it enabled me to feel how I should be sitting. I had one RWYM lesson a while after and again in 20 mins I had my horse walking on a completely slack rein lifting his back and really engaging and it was the first time I'd ever felt what that was really like.
I watched several other assessments and when I helped on a course this year watched several more and the difference it makes to the average rider is outstanding.
Maybe when you get to a higher level it doesn't follow through so well but having seen amazing results at grass roots level I felt it only right for people to hear both sides of the story.
Mty interpretation of her book and my lessons is that you have your heel in line with your hip joint so there must be something lost in translation!
|
|
|
Post by mandal on Dec 6, 2010 12:35:46 GMT 1
Mty interpretation of her book and my lessons is that you have your heel in line with your hip joint so there must be something lost in translation! Yes I got that too Michelle. I found the few RWYM lessons I had very useful indeed though I did struggle with the book. ;D Perhaps it is different at higher levels, I am a self professed not good or 'strong' rider. Keen but must try harder sums me up I think!
|
|
|
Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 12:39:34 GMT 1
You do get people having very similar "lightbulb" moments with both EE and CR as well Michelle. It's not RWYM per se that does that, it's simply having someone with a good knowledge of how the rider should sit, which is often not specifically taught to grass roots riders (or more advanced ones, lol!).
Good that you have picked up heel underneath hip joint, but sadly that is not what Mary herself had the riders do on the demo. Both of her guinea pig riders had their heels waving around in line with the back of their butts, and I have seen this on photos of RWYM trained riders too.
|
|
|
Post by rifruffian on Dec 6, 2010 12:41:25 GMT 1
hullo heather I have read the detail of your post displayed today at 0944 and trying to understand the tortuous english vocabulary necessary to describe a good way to ride.
Referring to your lines 6 and line 9 of that post your advice includes the word 'perpendicular' and I find myself wondering.......perpendicular to what ?
Am wondering if that upper arm and that leather is meant to be vertical ?
Hope you can enlighten me.
|
|
|
Post by donnalex on Dec 6, 2010 12:52:53 GMT 1
hullo heather I have read the detail of your post displayed today at 0944 and trying to understand the tortuous english vocabulary necessary to describe a good way to ride. Referring to your lines 6 and line 9 of that post your advice includes the word 'perpendicular' and I find myself wondering.......perpendicular to what ? Am wondering if that upper arm and that leather is meant to be vertical ? Hope you can enlighten me. I had no problems understanding it at all Arms and leathers should hang straight down is what is meant, as you probably know. Being at right angles to the horizontal; vertical.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2010 13:12:01 GMT 1
Oh I agree Jenny, I've seen lots of people posting on here about lightbulb moments with EE and CR, just thought I'd throw my tuppence worth in as the thread seemed to have turned quite anti RWYM Mandal, I was advised that the RWYM Essentials book is much better than the original one so I got that and really like it. A lesson made a lot of difference though as I could then feel what I was reading about.
|
|
|
Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 14:10:54 GMT 1
Sorry if you thought I was being a bit anti. I did say earlier in the thread that many people like RWYM and get a lot out of it, I mainly wanted to point out that it is certainly NOT suitable for all horses and riders and shouldn't be suggested as a one-size-fits-all riding approach. Just as CR is perfect for me, I know others don't like the analogies and prefer EE. I do think that we are lucky, having so many approaches to choose from, so that we can pick the one which suits us the best. I suppose I did take issue with the suggestion that the horse not going well for Mary in the demo was somehow due to faults with the horse - it certainly was not!! He is a very well trained horse, he was just very badly ridden by Mary, truth be told.
|
|
|
Post by heather on Dec 6, 2010 15:06:45 GMT 1
rifruffian, I thought there was only one way anything could be perpendicular, and that is to hang straight down! The one thing that I have never been accused of is making riding difficult! The whole essence of EE has always been simplicity. If my explanation is tortuous, then I do wonder just how much simpler I can make it! Perhaps the RWYM approach, here, would clarify it for you? www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzAjae43-NkHeather
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2010 15:19:40 GMT 1
Heather, perpendicular means 'at right angles to', so you need to say what the item in question is perpendicular to - in this case the stiurrup leathers should be perpendicular to the floor I think your meaning was pretty clear - I think riffruffian needs to go and sit in pedants corner
|
|
|
Post by heather on Dec 6, 2010 15:28:04 GMT 1
Thanks Michelle ;D. Oxford English dictionary also states it means 'upright, vertical'- which as you rightly assume, I meant. It also states that something is 'at right angles to the plane of the horizon'- I never knew that either!
|
|
|
Post by rifruffian on Dec 6, 2010 15:30:28 GMT 1
Pedantic, absolutely not. Just wanting to know, for my own education, exactly what Heather meant.
You mean 'hang straight down'..?...then write hang straight down.
Thank you for that reply Heather.
|
|
|
Post by heather on Dec 6, 2010 15:41:33 GMT 1
My pleasure rifruffian . Guess I shall have to watch my wording in the revision of my book which I am currently undertaking! ;D Heather
|
|
|
Post by annabelle h on Dec 6, 2010 16:29:40 GMT 1
In the interests of balance - I agree with Michellep that the basic RWYM techniques, taught well, can make a big improvement in the horse's way of going in a short time (without needing lots of rein, curb or leg). I did teach like that when i worked for a RWYM teacher. Although I was never quite sure how/why it worked . .
However I have other ways to get a horse there now, which I like better. But I have used elements of the RWYM stuff to help some riders. Like anything else, you have to use what works for you and the client in front of you.
My theory is that Mary's way is based on modelling competition riders with warmblood type horses, which is why it really doesn't suit hot/Iberian types or classical riders!
But let's not knock something because it doesn't work for us - there are plenty of folk who have got a lot from RWYM. Even if it's not "your" way, it's not actually evil. :-) Especially compared to a lot of teaching out there . .
|
|