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Post by mrsmills on Dec 5, 2010 14:34:50 GMT 1
I am in no position to comment on your riding position, but I just wanted to say how lovely it is to see you enjoying your riding again. I am so pleased that things have worked out and you are managing to get your horsey fix, after everything that you went through with Chester.
Best wishes
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naturalneddie
Advanced Poster
If all is not lost - where is it?
Posts: 278
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Post by naturalneddie on Dec 5, 2010 19:20:08 GMT 1
I would echo the 'very brave' sentiments, to ask for critisism! I'm not brave enough! but just to answer the question as to why sitting with a pelvis that is not upright would put a horse on the forehand........ try this yourself - go on - be brave! get on all fours and experiment with hollowing your back and then rounding it like a cat. Whilst hollow, check out how easy it is to lift your 'front' legs off the floor, and also, how easy it is to get your 'hind' leg up under you. then check out the comparison when you round your back. So, having a horse with a round back = off forehand and with a hind leg that comes through - this is hard for horses whenyour seat bones are poking in them, as they will likely be if your pelvis is not upright!
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Post by sophielouise on Dec 5, 2010 23:16:44 GMT 1
Aww, thank you MrsMills - that's a lovely thing to say! I must admit, I'm certainly not at all ready to even contemplate having another horse just yet - but I am definitely enjoying sharing Oily and just having fun again, for the most part. I've been really lucky being able to share at the yard Chester was kept and ride a lovely horse, with lovely people for company ;D So, (I think!!) I understand the principle of a non-upright pelvis ... but I didn't even realise I was doing it until I put those photo's up - but the million dollar question is how can I change it?? Obviously, eyes on the ground and lessons will probably be the only thing that will change my way of riding - which are in the pipeline, but until then ... is there anything I can do or work on myself that will help, so that I'm not having such an adverse effect? Cookies to anyone that can explain it to me, in simple 'thicko' terms!
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Post by jen1 on Dec 6, 2010 0:11:50 GMT 1
would you be able to get hold of mary wanless dvds,? can you sit on a chair and try and get up notice how your head would lead, see if you can sit up but push your guts against your skin, think of your middle as a stack of dinner plates and each plate has to be stacked in line with the other, put your hands under your seat bones and have a prod around, yes i really do these things, see if you can get used to seat bones pointing down and back and forward and then see if you can get used to the feeling of them pointing down, as for getting up off the chair without throwing your weight forward ,you would have to use your thighs ,and your core ,and try the thing natural neddies mentioned, she is a mary wanless coach , together we run the power of position workshops, aimed at doing just what your after we do it all dismounted on various balance toys,lol, also see if you can replicate your riding position stood up, and see where your balance goes, im betting your coundnt stand up, a riding position should be close to standing with your knees bent at a 45 degree angle of less, feldenkrias is a really good way of exploring the body and what your doing with it,
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Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 9:31:49 GMT 1
Mary Wanless doesn't work for everyone. I would do your research, look up also EE, Centered Riding and so on and see which fits your style of learning best. I know lots of people get on really well with RWYM but I personally find it awful! Doesn't suit my learning style at all.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 6, 2010 9:41:23 GMT 1
Mary Wanless doesn't work for everyone. I would do your research, look up also EE, Centered Riding and so on and see which fits your style of learning best. I know lots of people get on really well with RWYM but I personally find it awful! Doesn't suit my learning style at all. Agree with jenny! RWYM more to the point does not get on with every horse - Alex being a prime example. I tried it out of curiosity and the brakes were on the whole time, he really did not like it or go forward at all. More leg was needed just to get anything from him at all, he was totally blocked. The RWYM inventor also demonstrated how to block a forward going horse very publicly at a demo this year then proceded to kick its ribs in to make it move Your horse looks quite sensitive by the way he is hollowing underneath you and I would try to go down the route of moving with him softly as opposed to RWYM which makes the rider quite rigid on the horse and expects the horse to 'come up' to the rigid rider.
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Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 9:56:46 GMT 1
Lol Donnalex! Remember Pedro, with the nice butt at that demo? I did a clinic with him recently, at the yard of the lady who's horse MW rode that day. I saw her ride the horse twice, it was perfectly forward going and well mannered, she bought it from Pedro a few years ago. I have been to Pedro's yard in Portugal and ridden his horses - NONE are difficult to get going, not at all. They are all extremely sensitive though, and it doesn't surprise me at all that the horse at the demo was completely blocked by that way of riding. My horse too would just refuse to move if I did the things she was telling riders to do! It's not for every rider and certainly not for every horse.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 6, 2010 10:29:52 GMT 1
Haha Jenny - I did not notice any butt, I was far too interested in the horses You are very lucky to be able to gad about like that, enjoying the life of a Lady! But it does put you in a position to comment fairly, as you have seen for yourself the proof of the pudding
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Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 10:36:47 GMT 1
You can't remember?! In that case, it's only fair that I remind you. Just being a good citizen, and all that.... Not so much luck - just hard work, only one horse and no kids, lol!
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Post by heather on Dec 6, 2010 10:44:29 GMT 1
OK, I havent read through all the comments so I may be repeating some stuff, but, the ear/shoulder/hip/heel line, isnt exactly rocket science.
It is no more than a standing position with your knees slightly bent, so that if the horse and saddle were whisked out from under you, you would be standing, knees slightly bent, and not on your bum or your nose!
You tend to collapse your ribcage and the have your arms too straight. The first thing I would correct, is the arms, which are the cause of you rounding your back and shoulders. Bring your upper arm perpendicular, so that your elbow lies lightly against your ribcage. Just this one action will correct the whole torso!
As always, the saddle is pulling your legs too far forwards, because the stirrup bars as too far to the front to allow the leathers to hang perpendicularly underneath your leg. This is why so many riders find it so much easier to ride without stirrups!
I use few analogies but I do like to borrow Sally Swift's one of having a string attached to your hat. I like to think more of a bungee rope, as it gives the feeling of being stretched tall but elastically so.
Without stirrups, let your legs hang down from the hip, and actually point your toes DOWN! I know this is the last thing most teachers will tell you to do, but to get your thighs stretched and stabilise your pelvis, this is the best thing to do, in walk to begin with, think almost as though you are trying to go on ballet points. hold for about 30 seconds and release, dont ever do it until you 'feel the burn' as this is tearing muscles, not stretching them!
Ideally, I would put you on my simulators to do this, and also be able to teach you the precise synchronisation of your movement with that of the horse. For me, this is the first and most important thing to learn in riding, because from synchronisation with the horse, comes balance, and only then, can position be maintained.
Lastly, look up! But dont pull your neck into the back of your collar, as is so often taught- again the bungee rope idea, will align your whole torso/head, without having to think about all the individual bits of you!
Hope this helps!
Heather
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Post by donnalex on Dec 6, 2010 10:45:02 GMT 1
Trollop
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Post by heather on Dec 6, 2010 10:47:58 GMT 1
As one other lady remarked on Pedro's er.........remarkably flexible pelvis, at the Luso show, Jenny, I am not quite sure whether to call him Pedro the Pelvis, or Pedro the Posterior!! ;D
Fond as I am of Pedro, he is a terrible pelvic wriggler in sitting trot, beautiful seat in walk and canter, but then he is a working equitation rider and walk and canter are the only paces!
But his horses are beautifully trained, and I was dying to get on that little gelding of Loretta's as he looked a lot of fun!!
Heather
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Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 10:53:34 GMT 1
I didn't think so when I watched him ride at his yard. But I am planning to go back there in March (if he is better, he has been ill recently), so I will take some vids of the flexible pelvis for you to watch.... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by jen1 on Dec 6, 2010 11:06:56 GMT 1
your just a trollop jenny, i didnt notice the butt at all, i agree that rwym isnt for everyone , but the basics in finding out how your body works and the effects over the horse is al there, i know we disagreed with what mary did at the demo but mary wasnt there to look good, the horse had sewing machine legs that needed adressing ,
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Post by jennyb on Dec 6, 2010 11:27:42 GMT 1
Jen - the horse had movement typical of a Luso. A lot of that movement is in-bred and won't be changed in a 20 min riding session. Mary actually made the horse ten times worse and just demonstrated that her methods do block sensitive horses, full stop. Bearing down, pushing your guts against your skin, "kneeling" etc all serve to make a tense rider who tips onto their fork, I have seen this time and time again in photos of people who have RWYM lessons and have to bite my tongue! I also cannot for the life of me see how you would be able to influence a horse with your seat riding like that, and Mary herself just served to confirm all of my doubts about the RWYM system with her own riding. That horse is trained to grand prix level dressage, is very light and very sensitive, there is absolutely no reason at all why it would not move forwards except for Mary's seat. As for the sewing machine legs, as I said, a lot of that is the horse's natural movement, but if you want any hope of influencing that then you first start with relaxation of the jaw, and then look at the engagement of the hind legs through varying the pace and careful lateral work. Mary seems to me, first and foremost, a trainer of riders, NOT a trainer of horses. Sorry to have got onto a bit of a rant here, but I originally only wanted to point out that I would encourage anyone new to RWYM to also look at EE, Centered Riding and so on, as there are so many "systems" out there to help riders achieve a correct position. It really pays to do some reading on them all, try a few lessons etc and see which suits you the best. I honestly did like Mary's teaching style at the demo, I thought she had a lovely positive manner and connected well with each of her riders, but as for the content..... Sorry, it had me frowning and disagreeing with a lot! Each to their own though, and as I have said on here before, I am glad if people find that RWYM suits them and their horses. It's just not for me and we will have to agree to disagree on Mary's riding and influence on the horse, lol!
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