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Post by ladynowak on Dec 23, 2008 0:07:19 GMT 1
They weren't their finest moments, but doesn't take away from the fact than Ben Mayer is a fantastic rider with some truly superb horses. No rider is perfect and it would be nieve to think that they spend hours at home doing ground work with each horse. The stress/strain of competitions shouldn't get to these riders, but it does. It doesn't excuse it but it does start to explain it.
As for acid on jumps and hedgehog skins (who has the time to skin a hedgehog ;D lol) it may happen, but they are NOT practices used by the majority. Top class showjumpers are worth too much money to be covering in acid at the end of the day.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Dec 23, 2008 2:04:19 GMT 1
It's a black and white issue for me. If they use a whip, they are not a rider I would want to emulate. Any philosophy that ends in violence is, by definition, flawed.
Maybe if people started boo-ing when these things happened, it would shame these well known riders into stopping? It can't be a lot of fun winning when a crowd is booing and I doubt the sponsors would like it either - i.e. the main pressure to win.
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Jane
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Post by Jane on Dec 23, 2008 2:37:36 GMT 1
So frustrated that I can no longer watch these competitions. Roll on internet TV, although the BBC will hardly allow any of its online videos to be watched from overseas, apart from the news site.
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Post by bramblesmum on Dec 23, 2008 7:49:48 GMT 1
It's a black and white issue for me. If they use a whip, they are not a rider I would want to emulate. Any philosophy that ends in violence is, by definition, flawed. There is nothing wrong with using a whip correctly as it was originally designed to be used. I watched the last rounds of the jumping and ben maher was very sweet with his horse in the rounds I saw
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riz
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Post by riz on Dec 23, 2008 11:08:10 GMT 1
I won't name any names, but a very well known show jumper used to bring his ponies/horses to the affiliated show I used to help out at. I remember him beating the hell out of one horse when he must have been doing juniors (he had the Union Jack on his jacket) and everyone was very shocked. But because of who he was, and it was quite something to have him at the show we were never allowed to say anything to him. I certainly wouldn't hold back now.
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newimage
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Post by newimage on Dec 23, 2008 11:29:14 GMT 1
I didn't see Ben Maher but I saw Laura Renwick and thought she went too far with her whip. It wasn't a good ad for young admirers and totally unnecessary in my opinion, but I'm not a pro show jumper. Yes it's tough at the top and there's money at steak, but, that to me was riding school/PC behaviour. I really don't think you'd ever see a Whitaker doing that would you!
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Amanda Seater
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Post by Amanda Seater on Dec 23, 2008 11:38:45 GMT 1
Abuse of the whip leads to comments like this over heard in the tack shop. Teenager- "I need a new whip as I broke it" "Not on the horse I hope" - says tack shop owner Parent - "yes and he deserved it". And in credit to the shop owner he refused to sell them a whip. Yes I know they can go elsewhere - but good on him sadly he will lose custom but.....
( by the way i use a stick as a que not a whip- it is more acurate than a rope and longer than my arm!))
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Dec 23, 2008 11:39:32 GMT 1
It is very bizarre that in the general horsey population the very frst "TOOL" bought for most children learning to ride is a crop even very often before a hat
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Post by amelia on Dec 23, 2008 12:01:47 GMT 1
that to me was riding school/PC behaviour. I really don't think you'd ever see a Whitaker doing that would you! PC behaviour sums it up entirely (although I have to say that we would never have been allowed to behave like that when I was at PC!). However, Yes the Whitakers have behaved like that. I have seen Ellen lose it with her horses a fair few times. Although to give her credit she rode superbly at Olympia, maybe she's grown up a bit?
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Post by cbc on Dec 23, 2008 12:13:34 GMT 1
It is the one thing that drives me nuts about SOME showjumpers; hitting the horse after the refusal. Backing up a leg aid before the jump maybe if you must, but after makes no sense. And guess what all the young wannabees copy I havent got near the telly to see any Olympia, its a shame if these young jumpers have behaved as they have. The pressure must get to them sometimes, but to behave like that is very poor.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Dec 23, 2008 12:30:26 GMT 1
There is nothing wrong with using a whip correctly as it was originally designed to be used. Whips have a long history of being used as tools of punishment and force - whether used on humans or horses. It is a recent pretension to consider them tools of subtle artistic direction. We seem to have these debates time and again on here. Monty Roberts has devoted his life to teaching non-violent horsemanship and is very clear about the unacceptability of the whip. Kelly is also famous for being a whip-free rider and trainer. I feel this forum seriously loses it's way when members say that even moderate use of a whip is OK. I also feel it is an insult to our hosts and mentors when their primary message is rejected in their own virtual house. Yes- I feel strongly about this. There are a lot of grey areas in horsemanship, but this isn't one of them. If we can't get that right, then I feel this forum would be better closed.
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newimage
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Post by newimage on Dec 23, 2008 12:35:08 GMT 1
I have to agree Caroline, I hate to see whips used, and spurs - well said.
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babycham
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Post by babycham on Dec 23, 2008 12:46:03 GMT 1
Well said Caroline. I thought thats what this forum was all about?? Its a shame that these are our next professionals that will lead the way, and our youngsters follow. I really think people should have boo at this behaviour, Then maybe they would see how angry it makes us feel.
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l17
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Post by l17 on Dec 23, 2008 13:24:22 GMT 1
I think that the whip use by Laura Renwick was over the top and the audience did go quiet when it took place. It definitely made me wonder if a top showjumper should need to carry a whip. Even looking from a non IH point of view she was using the whip as a punishment and not any kind of reinforcement of her aids. However I carry a stick when I ride and use it to reinforce and aid e.g. stepping over during leg yield. I don't see al sitcks/ whips as bad it is how we use them. Lx
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Post by nich on Dec 23, 2008 15:09:07 GMT 1
I am ashamed to say that when learning to jump I did as was told by an instructor - once only - and smacked my beautiful, sensitive horse when she ran out. she then hammered at the next fence and was on a bad line, so spun in front of it putting me in a wheelchair for a week, and crutches for a month, with torn muscles and ligaments. I deserved it. I never use a whip for flatwork, except to push hind quarters in turn on the haunches (i.e. resting schooling stick there, NOT smacking) or - rarely - smacking my boot for impulsion.
I gave up jumping courses after that, and cringe whenever I see showjumpers doing it, for the horse and with shame that i once did it too.
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