Challenge! Best teaching with food or +r trick!

[Kelly Marks]

Saying 'trick' to keep it simple but can (obviously) be something really useful. If I get at least 10 good entries the one I consider the best/most practical/most fun/most achievable/most impressive (that's all the same trick mind you not different categories! Will receive £40 voucher for anything(s) they want from the IH office (tickets, books etc)
Entries close 28th August.
Kelly

[Heathcliffe]

I think this is because Im blonde?
I dont really understand?
sorry

[rj]

Yup, must because you're blonde - I think Kelly wants to hear about best 'trick' (she has explained what she means by that) people have trained their horses to do with clicker, food or other positive reinforcement methods.

I am also blonde, but it's not my natural colour!

[laura]

if I get this right kelly ...... the pic must show something "trained" the whole way by postive reinforcement / clicker / food rewards rather than negative reinforcement / pressure release

eg



this was the end result ..... defined as a "trick" when shown thus but started out with very definate serious intentions.

Taz did not trust enough to give her feet and all usual advice worked to the point that she would let me touch them ... but she still resisted or leaned heavily even once we got to the point she would let me pick them up I wanted HER to lift them and keep them up !


modified to add re kellys request ;D

so free shaped foot off ground .....

step by step

Taz already knew "X" (I use voice instead of a clicker) marked an action that would get a reward ( herbal treat)

In a quiet area just standing around

* watched for left front foot to be lifted off ground ... as it left the ground X treat

* repeat and repeat several times till actually offering the action lifting that foot only and without actually moving away.

SAFETY .. do not stand tooo near said foot in case gg really catches on and does spanish walk style lift as in pic above !!!

* introduced a cue .....as I saw her weight shift to start bringing foot up I tapped front of leg lightly

* started to reward only the leg lifts I had cued

* put my hand just behind and above her foot and when it touched my hand BIIIG X and mouthful treats

* delayed X a little so that if she just snatched the foot down where was no reward and treated if she held foot up to count of 2, then 3 , then 4 etc

* started to put hand round toe of hoof and "X" / reward

* delayed treat as before till I could LIGHTLY hold toe for a few seconds ..... if she snatched it away..... no treat.

the period of foot being held up gradually lengthened and once I could get the action on a cue reliably I started on the other legs ...... they of course took a lot shorter time

It sounds simple but it took weeks and weeks because she had serious distrust of people and we were still working our way through several issues. With a horse already trusting of people this could be done in days ( or less!)

. now offers feet up to cue and no weight on them when i am working with them. I can hold the foot in place with one finger and its a great back saver for me too !!!!




balloons ..... well that started out as the usual spook busting stuff as , well we all see the things attached to doors and gateposts for birthday parties etc so a definate need imo ....and they burst even without said kiddies around so needed get used to noise !

.... had already target trained Taz to touch my hand or an object its near to.....handy for getting her to rouch brollies etc !

Had included me bursting them in the spook busting bit and it was just a "shall we try this".

I planned it to take a few days ......... prepared for small steps and lots repitions !

as I was bursting them however she wandered over and stretched out neck ..... so click treat, within minutes I was bursting them under her nose. I put balloon on end of whip (great uses for whips folks !!!!!) and cued the leg lift. put the balloon under where foot would land .... and viola ... one balloon burst and BIIIG reward !!!


It had taken 10 minutes from start to finish ...... shocked me to say the least ...... and we repeated it later that day.

Taz will do almost ANYTHING for food ;D

ps she does not normally lift her leg THAT high ... she must have had a spanish walk moment because of the cameras


plan for step by step intro would be

better if horse already been intoduced to targeting ( touching hand / object on request but if not

* hold one balloon fairly near the horse ( this refers to all equines be they long ears, short ears or smallish ones) and as soon as he looks towards the balloon ...... X / treat

* then wait nose to touch the balloon..... x /treat ( could introduce cue word if wanted)

* move further away so horse has to step towards you to touch the balloon ... X / treat

* you can put it on a wall or something a few steps away and let the horse step away from you to touch the balloon ... X treat

once that is firmly established

introduce them bursting.

start far away as you need and apply desensitisation princples till horse comfy with them bursting right next to him.

SAFETY . horse may run in oppsite direction or right over you . do this in a not too small enclosed area ( stable NOT a good idea)with no smallish ones around or things horse could impale self on

cue the leg lift ( or spanish walk) and put balloon under foot . I rewarded any contact at first even if the balloon did not burst .... then only when it burst so she kept on trying.

SAFETY stand at side /shoulder in case of spansich wallk lift again

She remembers it soooo well that although I not asked her to do it at all for at least two - three years ... when i brought the balloons out and put one on the floor for the spooky vid ... she did it right away, first take !

[Heathcliffe]

oooooh I get it...
The Carrot.
My yearling came to me run off a trailer, he had never had a head collar on never mind being led.
He caught on quite quick but then his field was down the road, Its about a mile away, his poor little legs got tierd, he got slower and slower on the way back home and it was becoming a 45 min walk there and back when normally it would be a 10/15 minute.
I tried everything but then one day I had a carrot, Like a carrot on a stick above his head, but down infront of his nose we made it to 20minutes here and back
now he has caught on without the carrot and we can do it in 10 minutes.
a very proud mummy am i!

[shammers]

That is very cleaver laura, what a lovely sweet mare!!! x

[Susan]

Laura gets my vote!!

Kelly do you have to have a pic of it??
to verify like Laura's

[Casper]

I clicker trained Bobby to accept his eye drops when he had an eye infection earlier this year Kelly. Before that it was almost impossible to get them in his eye. The vet was so impressed she came over recently to watch some clicker training being done, and to see how you can clicker train for anything if you break down what you want to achieve in small manageable chunks.

No photos though, sorry.

[Amanda (S Yorks)]

Would teaching my mare to wee in a certain spot count? My mare used to wee in the same place on her way into and out of the field regularly, so I started reinforcing it with a click and reward, and now she pretty much does it on command (I whistle).

Saves on mucking out as she goes prior to going in the stable, and will go again on her way back to the field, even if it's just a trickle. She does still wee in the stable if she's in overnight, but it's much less than if she didn't go outside.

[fin]

We've been teaching H (ex-feral extremely cheeky pony) Spanish Walk with the clicker, but she managed to injure herself getting stuck in a door (don't ask!) so we stopped for a while. I've been intending to resume it because it's something she very much likes doing.....she had a good point going and was just starting to get forward movement when we stopped teaching her. This was where we were up to a few months ago:



It's a mixed blessing in that they do like to show off with it so there's always a possibility you'll get kneecapped (H kneecaps people for fun I suspect) but on the other hand I now also have a pony that daintily puts her feet on a hoofstand for you, has really rather flexible shoulders, and hopefully is going to learn to use her hindquarters properly

Mind you, she has been clicker trained since she was 6 months old so she has a repetoire of odd things...she chases her tail on cue, goes into the stable when asked, and probably most usefully, stands absolutely stock still without moving a muscle.

We have also found food rewards (well, bribes, in this case) hugely useful when said pone took it upon herself to do the circus pony thing in a (fortunately sturdy) wheelbarrow



How do you get a pony out of a wheelbarrow when it's perfectly happy and has no intentions of coming down?



Answer: bribe it



Of course, small pones learn quickly so she promptly parked herself on a straw bale and waited for the bribe to appear.......



Which was something we hadn't meant to happen, but does go to show how quickly it's possible to set a behaviour with just one generous reward. ;D

PS we left her on the bale--she was there for some time........

[Deleted]

Oh HONESTLY Finn. Just any old excuse to show of that pony of yours! Anyone would think that we were at all interesting in her antics... of course not... how (yawn.......) dull

Well, just to make sure Kelly gets her 10, here's my little work in progress. It's not strictly solely +r as I've used a variety of things up till now, and it's not what some would count as a trick, but for us it's huge.

Flossie is my current in house project. She's an ILPH rescue, previously uncatachable. She's not been caught for 3 years in her first home, had to be darted to be rescued by the ILPH, and then was with them for a year where only 2 staff members could catch her with the bribe of a scoop of feed.

I started off working with advance and retreat and did make a lot of progress. Then we hit a rut. She remained extremely nervous, and would take flight at anything. Her 2 worst things remain her hind legs and getting a headcollar on her. With her headcollar, she would have it on but under sufferance. Often, you'd reach for the strap and she'd fly off. You could never get it on without probably 5 minutes of pressure and release.

Her nervousness and twitchyness were such that I decided to try her on magnesium, and ordered some from the lovely rummi, who popped in a packet of linseed treats. Now, I'd tried target training with Floss before but without much luck. But linseed treats, tiny as they are, well, we can do backflips for them! So, clicker training here we came...

In just 3 days, Floss will now put her nose into her headcollar for me. We're not quite there yet, we still have to do the very scary reaching over for the strap (that is very, very scary!), but even if she spooks she no longer does laps of the paddock. Yes, that's partly down to the magnesium, but it's also down to not using negative reinforcement with her on this. Any pressure I was putting on her, no matter how small, was too big for her.

So, our party trick isn't very grand. We can't yet burst balloons or trash wheelbarrows, but for us it's big. Next stop, feet...

I should add thanks to Sarah W for the chats we've had about clicker training and nervous ponies. Funny how she was right...

[Kelly Marks]

OK - no you don't HAVE to have a photo (although aren't the photos we do have great?!) I'd love to have a step by step 'how to' so others can try (add appropriate safety warnings guys). Does everyone understand the competition now - whatever colour their hair?!
Kx

[laura]

I clicker trained Bobby to accept his eye drops when he had an eye infection earlier this year Kelly. Before that it was almost impossible to get them in his eye. The vet was so impressed she came over recently to watch some clicker training being done, and to see how you can clicker train for anything if you break down what you want to achieve in small manageable chunks.

that is a really useful thing to do along with injection stuff.

So, our party trick isn't very grand. We can't yet burst balloons or trash wheelbarrows, but for us it's big. Next stop, feet...

ah but Liz ..... thats what you can aim for years on .... H has had a loving home like forever ;D ....and Taz have been at it a lot longer than thos poor scared pone .......although can empathise in the (used to be) scared department

[debutante]

I thought i would add this but i dont think it really counts my mare storm headshakes and when leading her i have often treated her ie herbal treat etc and said head down offering her the treat but she would have to lower her head to get the treat , i then ask for head down when im longlineing her as as soon as she goes into trot her head goes up she starts headshaking she puts her head down and it eases off, when leading say in from the field in bad weather ie the wind and rain she has been know to head shake and gets a little distressed she is usually ok when i lead her as i am used to it and add a little gentle pressure to get her to lower head or in bad rain (i know its not the right thing to do) walk infront of her to shelter her from the rain!, however the other day she was being lead in and turned the corner where the wind and rain howled round she imidiatley dropped her head, i was so pleased as she wasnt even asked but she controlled the situation herself and kept calm, i was and still im really happy about that, sorry i know it doesnt really count towards this thread.

[potto]

Fab photos... i love that pony finn!! I reckon we should definately set up a show i know the perfect partner for yours....!!! As for the balloon popping that is just fab, i might have to invest on some of those... however i can't see the other liveries being impressed (they already find me quite odd) Particularly when they see me walking along with indi holding a schooling whip behind me in his mouth giving me the occasional tap on the butt to keep me going!!!

I have to say i have avoided clicker training although it sounds great to use and certainly has its place with many horses and food rewards.. so i am not sure i could enter this competition, due to the fact that the spotty botty is very explorative with his mouth and spatially aware generally and needs to have boundaries.. kept firm.(Other than the odd slurp of lager from the tray at the pub on friday nights). I actually think giving him food rewards would distract him from his investigations and learning and get a bit out of control. He is naturally inquisitive and loves to still explore with his mouth.. but needs direction. He is happy to hold things which he does naturally, (his habit of eating saddles has long since been redirected i am happy to say!).. as he has picked up an object i have said 'hold' and given him lots of praise and high pitched voice and stroking. then when he drops or i want him to drop the object i say 'drop' in a low voice sometimes putting my fingers in the corner of his mouth gently. When he drops the object i then give verbal praise and lots of stroking again. We also might have a run up and down the field if we are in it before trying again. (He will follow me / or race me running up and down the field and i think he sees this as a reward and play) I do get excited and very pleased with him when he has done something clever and i think he picks up on this and certainly acts very pleased with himself and is then very happy to do whatever it is again.

The warnings are.. that i have to remove anything that isn't nailed or tied down in the stable as he will pick it up and throw it out at passers by! He also can untie himself.

I also have to ensure that i have extra security on my gate to the field as he can undo bolts, he can also remove electric fence posts from the bottom and take fencing down while the electric is still on by lifting them out from the bottom and then jump or step inbetween fencing over the top, not getting shocked!
I have had to ensure that he wants to do everything and keep his interest, for example to ride him out he has had to have confidence,fun and want to be with me, to keep him in a field i have had to ensure he is happy, well fed (but not fat and unfit) and comfortable and not bored, to teach him i have had to gain his attention, interest and cooperation which has been a massive challenge!

I actually feel that with this horse i don't have a choice.. if i don't teach him tricks he will teach himself anyway and it is the only way i stand a chance of knowing what he is upto.. besides it seems to be building more trust between us. Not just expecting him to trust me... but the trust that i know i feel for him! I love the fact that he is always waiting at the gate for me ready and waiting for whatever we are going to get up to next together and knowing its not just about food but mischief!!

I do feel however that it has taken me 11 months to get to this stage and has been no quick fix and only now after investing an immense amount of time, effort, love, energy and mistakes in the spotty botty have we got to this stage in our relationship... where i really think he is willing, confident enough, receptive to take on board things quickly as we have that understanding of each other, I think for quicker results without that relationship or time and investment other methods would work well, but we have time on our side now and can just do it for the fun and love of it if we want to!! As an extra to the other stuff we do.